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Comment by Sebas

Must like garrote, this skill is rarely used and it's value in battle is limited...If it serves any purpose then it is purely a PvE skill because DoTs are mostly useless for rogues and using combo points on this instead of eviscerate or kidney shot just doesn't make sense.

Comment by 8460

I would use this against warriors and priests like garrote, because you know warriors, lotsa hea;th, priests heal lots and have Power word:shield

Comment by 8346

Rupture is a very useful skill against Rogue vs. Rogue battles. Preventing your opponent from being able to re-stealth is priceless! Depending on the skill of your opponent, it may not be necessary.

It also works very well to lay a rupture on when your opponent is getting low on health. Many times this will kill them as they try to run away from you, or just speed up the process in close quarter battles.

Comment by Wildarms1

Master of Subtlety is a talent in the subtlety tree (obviously.) it's effect is to give +10% dmg in stealth, and 6 seconds after stealth the dmg % goes away. Well from my experiments in many situations, the % stays even after 6 seconds is up. I've yet to see anyone report this bug as of yet so I thought I'd inform all of you.

Comment by Wildarms1

Did the math, and if you play for 4 hours a day, until burning crusade is released, you would get a full set of pvp gear (the marshal to field marshal) just in time for BC to be released. so basically, if you want this pvp gear before BC is released, 4 hours is the bare minimum to obtain it.

Comment by 18835

I do not understand how rupture damage is calculated from the wowwiki article on it. Could someone please explain it to me?

Comment by 15757

A handy formula used to calculating Rupture damage.

Most rogues think that 1 AP = +1 damage to rupture. However, this is not the case:

Modifier = Attack Power * 0.24
Damage Base = Rupture Rank Base + (Rupture Rank CoEfficent * Combo Points)
Duration = (Combo Points * 2) + 6

Serrated Blades = 1 + (0.10 * Serrated Blades Rank)
Total Damage = * Serrated Blades
Damage Per Tick = (Total Damage / Duration) * 2

Comment by Fugazi

5CP Rupture > 5CP Eviscerate

To show difference I give example:
Mag raid (we had feral druid)
Rupture -> 241 avarange tick = 241 x 16 = ~4000 damage (per one 5CP Rupture)
Eviscerate -> 1200 avarange hit = 1200 + 25% (crit chance) = 1500 damage
On top of that Eviscerate was talented, Rupture was not (19/42/0 spec).

Sorry I don't have theorycraft at hand to prove it better so I was forced to use example from game :)

If you add to this that Rupture scale better than Eviscerate (buffs!) and Mangle (+30%) that is often up if you got feral druid in raid then Rupture can be simply x3 more damage than Eviscerate.

5CP S&D -> 5CP Rupture, repeat and enjoy (doable as combat swords/fists/maces).

Comment by Fugazi

Doh! My bad indeed. I searched some more...

Formula for Rupture rank7:
1pt = Attack Power * 0.04 + 324
2pt = Attack Power * 0.10 + 460
3pt = Attack Power * 0.18 + 618
4pt = Attack Power * 0.21 + 798
5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1000

Formula for Eviscerate:
Modifier = Attack Power * (Number of Combo Points used * 0.03)
Eviscerate = (Base Damage Minimum + Modifier) - (Base Damage Maximum + Modifier)
Critical Eviscerate = Eviscerate Damage Range * 2

Therefore assuming 2000 AP, 25% crit, 5CP, Improved Eviscerate and Aggression (typical combat build):

Rupture7: 2000 * 0.24 + 1000 = 1480
Rupture7 with Mangle: 1480 + 30% = 1924
Eviscerate9: + / 2 = 1345 + 15% + 6% + 25% = 2049 BUT that is with 0 armor. Bosses (with debuffs) should have around 30% damage reduction due to their armor, making 2049 - 30% = 1434

Conclusion:
If you have feral druid in raid Rupture will always be superior (if it is allowed to tick 16 sec).
If you don't have feral druid Rupture still will be better in almost all situations. All depends on boss armor here (which most of them have a lot).

==================
EDIT: After 2 months I decided to add some more calculations for more end-game. This time 2500 AP and 30% crit.

Rupture = 1600 / 25 = 64 DPE (damage per energy)
Rupture + Mangle = 2080 / 25 = 83.2 DPE
Eviscerate = 1846 / 35 = 52.74 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) = 2250 / 35 = 64.28 DPE
Eviscerate (talented) + 2 set T5 bonus = 2567 / 35 = 73.34 DPE
Eviscerate + 2 set T5 bonus = 2106 / 35 = 60.17 DPE
This is of course on target with 0 armor. Yet it shows us that:
- Rupture with mangle is superior to everything if it is allowed to tick for whole duration
- Rupture without mangle is same as talented (!) Eviscerate assuming that mob have 0 armor. Most mobs have 20%+ armor reduction which reduce Eviscerate damage by that ammount (Rupture ignore armor),
- If you have 2 pieces of T5 and talents into Eviscerate then Rupture with Mangle is still superior. However Eviscerate will be better than Rupture without Mangle if mob have less than ~10% armor reduction.

Of course all calculations are based on 2500AP and 30% crit which should be quite common if you have warrior and ench. shammy in group and have SSC/TK equipment.

So short version based on above calculations is:
1) Rupture + Mangle = wins, always
2) Rupture without Mangle vs Eviscerate without talents and 2 pieces of T5 = Rupture wins, always
2) Rupture without Mangle vs Eviscerate with talents but without 2 pieces of T5 = Rupture wins, always
2) Rupture without Mangle vs Eviscerate without talents but with 2 pieces of T5 = Rupture wins, always
3) Rupture without Mangle vs Eviscerate with talents and 2 pieces of T5 = Rupture wins if mob have more than ~10% armor reduction (most of them)

Eviscerate still have its own uses, obviously on bleed immune mobs, on Adrenaline Rush, when you get shitload combat potency procs (refreshing Rupture when it still have many ticks to go is not good idea then) etc.

Comment by Thalastor

It's also worth noting that Rupture costs 25 energy versus 35 for Eviscerate. If a mob can bleed, it is almost always better to use Rupture over Eviscerate.

Comment by 46812

Maybe Rupture does more dmg than evi, but it is dot damage, so you can't gouge oder blind, remember that.

Comment by TheRazielim

I'd say treat it like any other DoT, use it on bosses or tough enemies where your DoTs have time to tick down and also you know you better not pull aggro or you're toast.

Comment by Zeldendorf

Actually I think that this + Garrote + Deadly poison is best for PvPing against warriors
Dunno though

Comment by svaza

Let's compare the new ranks of both Eviscerate and Rupture

Let's say we have our toon at 2500 AP at level 80 (that I consider more realistic than 3000 AP of the above poster)

Eviscerate:

2352 - 3106 for an average eviscerate

Normal=2729
Talented=3302

mitigation on raid boss...i can't remember how much it is but let's set it to 30% including both kind of bosses (caster/melee) and average Armor penetration and we'll have

EvisNormalMitigated = 1910.3
EvisTalentedMitigated = 2311.4

we are going to see what's the average damage per energy of this skill so

Normal 1910/35 = 54.58 DpE
Talented 2311.4/35 = 66.04 DpE

anyway eviscerate can crit, as usual our crit rate should assest around 30% so

Eviscerate on a long fight will do

Normal
1910+1637.4= 3547,4 average with
3547.4/35 =101.35 DpE

Talented
2311+2278.38 = 4589.38
4589.38/35= 131.12 DpE

but considering armor mitigation at 30%

EvisNormalMitigatedAndCrit = 2483.18 (70.94 DpE)

EvisTalentedMitigatedAndCrit = 3212.566 (91.78 DpE)

Rupture

2486 Average over 16 sec every three seconds
2486/25 = 99.44 DpE

Rupture damage ignores armors, and we can have up to 60% improve for Rupture:

With both Serrated Blades and Blood Spatter
RuptureTalented

Talented60%Rupture = 3977.6 (159.1 DpE)

anyway is more realistic that a combat build will have just a 30% increase for rupture

Talented30%Rupture = 3231.8 (129.27 DpE)

Rupture is still the winner.

Let's see it under a PVP prospective, cause it's getting interesting, isn't it?

There is one thing that can make Shadow Step builds even more powerful, and that's not the daggers friendly shadow dance. What I am talking about is the more dreadful wet dream of all old school rogues: SEAL FATE!...and double cold blood!

Well...

Avg Eviscerate
2729
we're going to add +21% from talents...and 20% from shadow step...and a 100% crit hit chance!
*2.30 = 9113.7 from behind (unmitigated...but i'm sure you will find a way to reduce to zero your priest target armor..ghghgh)
Also maybe you choose to spec for Master of Subtlety and cast a 5 Combo points Cold Blood Eviscerate right after cheap shot...so i guess i should make the mat...it's 10025 damage...pretty impressive!

(DpE should be a whooping 260...did you get me? ;) )

Comment by Kebra

Ya I was noticing this too, with a solid Mutilate build you could be dishing out alot of damage. The change to SnD talent as well makes it easy. Heres what I have for a build.

http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efoxosqroIuGoMGZxbc0h

Depending on your weapons you could scrap the extra 30% of rupture damage and go for the 5% crit chance with your daggers and max out your offhand and hit chance later on when the gear starts to get better.

Comment by 1771

Please remember that resillience affect damage over time.
as 200 lowers dot by about 5%, I am not sure if that's what makes the difference but...it's sumthin'.

Oh well it also modifies crit chance and crit damage, both affected by evis but not with rupture...I guess rupture IS better.

Comment by 101192

remember hemorrhage increases damage of all rupture dot ticks.. apply glyphed hemo + glyphed rupture is lololol damage

Comment by 106732

Ok, I'm fairly sure I must be doing something wrong in my math, but I'm using WoWHead's formula.....(my math says my rupture does 5 million damage before 60% talent bonus) Maybe someone can help me.
I have an average of 3.2k AP raid buffed, what would my rupture damage be? (at 5 points)
Also, at 5.6k AP, what would my rupture damage be?

What I am doing is ((217+.0375)(3200))8) =5556160

Comment by 39615

there was a handy elementary school acronym for how to do these but anyway you have your order wrong, multiplication/division is done first:

{(217+)*8}=2696

Comment by 238760

so with more combo points does it do more damage per tick and adds more ticks or does it only ad more ticks?

Comment by Sinius

I made some calculations with guildie's stats (3235 AP, 42% usual raid crit of Eviscerate, no armor penetration considered).
Rupture bonuses: 2/5 T7 bonus and 2/2 Blood Spatter talent = 40% + 30% from Mangle/Trauma afterwards
Eviscerate bonuses: 5/5 Aggression talent and 2/3 Improved Eviscerate talent = 20%

Eviscerate 5pt = (1977 + (AP * 0.15))-(2231 + (AP * 0.35))
Complete formula for DPE with bonuses and debuffs:
((((((1977 + AP * 0.15) + (2231 + AP * 0.35) / 2) * 1.2 * 58) + (((1977 + AP * 0.15) + (2231 + AP * 0.35) / 2) * 1.2 * 2.3 * 42)) / 100) * (1 - 0.341)) / 35

Eviscerate (Rank 12) 5pt
2462-3363 (before bonuses)
2954-4036 (after bonuses)
6794-9283 (crit after bonuses)
3495 (average after bonuses)
8039 (average crit after bonuses)
5403 (average hit/crit with ratio 58:42 after bonuses)
3561 (average hit/crit with ratio 58:42 after bonuses and Maexxna armor mitigation )
102 DPE (damage per energy point)

EDIT: I made few mistakes yesterday. Eviscerate damage is right, but I need to recalculate Rupture.
So here it is:

Rupture 5pt = Attack Power * 0.24 + 1736
Complete formula for DPE with bonuses and debuffs:
((AP * 0.24 +1736) * 1.6 * 1.3) / 25

Rupture (Rank 9) 5pt
2512 (before bonuses)
3517 (after bonuses)
4572 (after bonuses with Mangle/Trauma on the target)
183 DPE (damage per energy point)

Comment by 230590

people doing the math there are missing the Rupture glyph which adds 4 sec to it (2 more ticks, or 25% more damage if you did a 5 point)

so essentially the math would go

base x 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.3 x 1.25 = base x 2.74625
(buffs were: blood spatter, serrated blades, mangle/trauma, and the glyph)

so if your base damage was 3k, you would likely see it do 8238 over 20sec which is fairly accurate

that also doesnt include the Teir 7 or 8 set bonuses (one is flat 10% more, other allows critical hits which may be 30-45% more damage)

its not unheard of to have a single rupture deal almost 15k damage over its duration with all these modifiers, and a no brainer to include in your rotation as a rogue

Comment by 230590

if that was the case, it would only a 9% difference, the base would be 1.6x instead of 1.69%, so total would be exactly 2.6x what it says on the tooltip for damage

and yea, good timing with AP trinket procs does put out some fantastic numbers with rupture (or any big finisher)

like double berserking and something like pyrite infuser at the same time, and you happen to be an orc, thats an extra 2316 more AP than you'd usually have lol

with that, probably close to 7500ap total raid buffed, so actual damage would be

or 3986 over 16sec, or 498 per tick (ever 2 sec)... plus talents its 6377 over 16sec, or 797 per tick

add glyph 7972 over 20sec, or 797 per tick (glyph adds 4sec so doesnt affect how much it ticks for)

add mangle 10363 over 20sec, or 1036 per tick

if you have 2pc T7, its 11399 over 20sec, or 1140 per tick

or 4pc T8, average 45% crit raid buffed, and overall it should average out to 15026 over 20sec, or 1503 per tick average... if you are combat 7/51/13, it would be closer to 17k if its affected by prey on the weak (20% more crit damage which it likely is)

compared to other finishers, it makes envenom and rupture's damage look pretty small, the closest thing i have see was eviscerate as HaT spec where the average eviscerate damage was about 7k (close to 60% crit on it as well), which even then gets beat out considering rupture doesnt even need to crit to do all that damage, pretty much both talents and the glyph (since he was also glyphed for eviscerate) is enough to be the mandatory if you want to do the most dps

there is even a mutilate spec now that goes 51/7/13 specifically for serrated blades since rupture is such a big part of your dps (especially if you happen to already have 7% or more hit rating from gear alone the spec is about 2-3% more dps than the usual 51/13/7)

and the icing on the cake, its only 25e, vs eviscerate or envenom which cost 35e, or basically free if you have relentless strikes (and you should)... so pretty much when people talk about DPE and rupture i just shake my head, how can you even consider it if it didnt cost you any energy lol?

Comment by 111622

+30% Through Serrated Blades
+10% Through Tier 7 2/5 Bonus
+30% Through Blood Splatter

Comment by 259571

This is not a good finisher for leveling, since you will most likely kill the target before the DoT has dealt its full damage.

Edit: Typo

Comment by 337702

With about 40% crit / 3700 AP muti spec for PvP with 4/5 Tier 8 bonus this crits for around 1250-1350 a tick, around 550-650 none crit. Overall damage can vary between 6000-8600 depending on crits. Very useful against plate and other rogues, if you can CS>Muti>5 CP Rupture as an opener its pretty much kiss of death to another rogue especially if you can slap a 4-5 point Evicerate in right after.

Comment by 539978

Normal
1910+1637.4= 3547,4 average with
3547.4/35 =101.35 DpE

Talented
2311+2278.38 = 4589.38
4589.38/35= 131.12 DpE

but considering armor mitigation at 30%

EvisNormalMitigatedAndCrit = 2483.18 (70.94 DpE)

EvisTalentedMitigatedAndCrit = 3212.566 (91.78 DpE)

I definitely appreciate you going through the trouble of putting up all of these numbers and calculations, I have to say first off ...

However, you made a 'critical' mistake in applying mitigation twice (I'm sure I'll be downgraded - lol, i don't care). If you look to the top of your post, you came up with 1910 and 2311, respectively, after having already applied a 30% mitigation decrease. You cannot then go ahead and apply it again as you did, to reach 70.94 and 91.78 DpE.

Taking this into consideration, you will see just how similar the results are ... especially if you take into account that most PvE builds will not have 60% improve for rupture, usually having 30% as noted in your second example.

Comparing the two, you then have:

Eviscerate normal - 101.35 DpE Rupture normal - 99.44 DpE

talented - 131.12 DpE talented - 129.27 DpE

That being said, in PvP, a lot of rogues (including myself) do switch talents to make rupture 60% better - so your example definitely proves that in that area, rupture seems to have the upper hand.

Comment by 456111

As from 3.3.3 patch, the damage-over-time component of this ability can now produce critical strikes.

Comment by Carlotta

I get a mix of answers when I ask fellow Rogues, so will ask it here aswell.
Does any talent-specialization for pve use this anymore, even with the recent buff?

Comment by Nevariya

What is the highest crit recorded for Rupture?

Comment by 381082

The DoT-effect on this ability can crit whilst the effect of Garrote cannot. This also cost less energy than the almighty finisher Eviscerate, worth thinking about when selecting how to dispatch those combo-points.

Comment by 242426

With my "floating text energy gains", I saw that every time an enemy dies with my rupture still in effect, I gain about 137 energy every time, and I'm a subtlety rogue. Is this a bug?

Comment by Bill0the0turtle

Am I reading Wowhead's tooltip wrong? Because it looks like a lower combo point total means higher DPS:
Using an example of 100 AP (for simplicity's sake) the 5 combo levels go as follows:

Combo 1: (45 + (6 * 1 * 1) + (0.025 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8 s = (45 + 6 + (2.5 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8s = (45 + 6 + 10) / 8s = 7.625 / s
Combo 2: (45 + (6 * 1 * 2) + (0.04 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 12)) / 12 s = (45 + 12 + (4 * 0.5 * 12)) / 12 s = (45 + 12 + 24) / 12 = 6.75 / s
. . .
Combo 5: (45 + (6 * 1 * 5) + (0.062 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 24)) / 24 s = (45 + 30 + (6.2 * 0.5 * 24)) / 24s = (45+30+74.4)/24s = 6.225 /s

Is the equation just for the 'tick' damage, or the total damage?

Comment by 1120145

By Bill0the0turtle on 2013/04/15 (Patch 5.2.0)
Am I reading Wowhead's tooltip wrong? Because it looks like a lower combo point total means higher DPS:
Using an example of 100 AP (for simplicity's sake) the 5 combo levels go as follows:

Combo 1: (45 + (6 * 1 * 1) + (0.025 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8 s = (45 + 6 + (2.5 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8s = (45 + 6 + 10) / 8s = 7.625 / s
Combo 2: (45 + (6 * 1 * 2) + (0.04 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 12)) / 12 s = (45 + 12 + (4 * 0.5 * 12)) / 12 s = (45 + 12 + 24) / 12 = 6.75 / s
. . .
Combo 5: (45 + (6 * 1 * 5) + (0.062 * (100) * 1 * 0.5 * 24)) / 24 s = (45 + 30 + (6.2 * 0.5 * 24)) / 24s = (45+30+74.4)/24s = 6.225 /s

Is the equation just for the 'tick' damage, or the total damage?

Yes, you are reading Wowhead's tooltip wrong. Using your stated 100AP for the formula, it is not:

(45 + (6 * 1 * 1) + (0.025 * 100 * 1 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8 s = (45 + 6 + (2.5 * 0.5 * 8)) / 8s = (45 + 6 + 10) / 8s = 7.625 dps

It is:

((45 + (6 * 1 * 1) + (0.025 * 100 * 1)) * 0.5 * 8) / 8s = ((45 + 6 + 2.5) * 0.5 * 8) / 8s = (45 + 6 + 2.5) * 4) / 8s = 26.75 dps

When you use the correct formula to compare different amounts of combo points you can see the DPS does go up with more points:
1 point : ((45 + (6 * 1 * 1) + (0.025 * 100 * 1)) * 0.5 * 8) / 8s = ((45 + 6 + 2.5) * 0.5 * 8) / 8s = ((45 + 6 + 2.5) * 4) / 8s = 26.75 dps
2 points: ((45 + (6 * 1 * 2) + (0.04 * 100 * 1)) * 0.5 * 12) / 12s = ((45 + 12 + 4) * 0.5 * 12) / 12s = ((45 + 12 + 4) * 6) / 12s = 30.5 dps

Comment by Fugazi

If you leveling as Assasination use this even on fast dying mobs because thanks to Venomous Wounds you will end up with max energy (not to mention good damage). I feel like noob discovering this at 60-62 and using Envenom instead before :(

Comment by rodalpho

The devs told us exactly how 7.0 Rupture & Garrote works at the link(s) below.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20743504316?page=21#416

I'm pasting it here as they typically delete the beta forums after release.

Q: Which (if any) buffs are supposed to be snaposhotted by Rupture/Garrote? Nightstalker/Subterfuge/Elaborate Plannning are currently known to do this.

A: Rupture snapshots Nightstalker. Garrote snapshots Nightstalker and Subterfuge. Neither snapshots Elaborate Planning.

Comment by rodalpho

The devs told us exactly how Assassination abilities work in PvP at the link(s) below.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20747314610#2

I'm pasting it here as they typically delete the beta forums after release.

Rupture deals 75% damage in PvP
Blood of the Assassinated increases rupture damage by 30% in PvP (down from 100%)

Comment by ordamo

Since 7.1.5, rupture doesn't get damage for expending more combo points

Simplified (imagine rupture ticks each second for 1 damage), works like this:

1cp = 1 tick in 1 second (dps: 1)
2cp = 2 ticks in 2 seconds (dps: 1)
3cp = 3 ticks in 3 seconds (dps: 1)
...

Basically, one combo point means one more tick/second, without changing the damage of the tick

So it's worth renewing rupture with 2 or 3 combo points if you don't wanna lose uptime (at the cost of more energy).

Comment by Tiritto

Damage per tick of this ability remains the same regardless of the amount of combo points spent. Each additional combo point past the first one just extends the duration of this DoT by 4 seconds, simply giving us more time before having to reapply it.

Links WeakAuras Export

Rupture

Rupture

25 Energy / 1 to 5 Combo Points	Melee Range

Instant

Finishing move that tears open the target, dealing Bleed damage over time. Lasts longer per combo point.

1 point : [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 2] over 8 sec
2 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 3] over 12 sec
3 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 4] over 16 sec
4 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 5] over 20 sec
5 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 6] over 24 sec
[ 6 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 7] over 28 sec]
[ 7 points: [(63.5046% of Attack power) * 8] over 32 sec]

Buff

Spell Details

Duration

4 seconds

School

Physical

Mechanic

Bleeding

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

Normal

Cost

25 Energy / 1 to 5 Combo Points

Range

5 yards (Combat)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

1 second

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Periodic Damage
Interval: 2 seconds (AP mod: 0.317523)
Mechanic: Bleeding
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #2

Apply Aura: Periodic Dummy
Value: 1 every 2 seconds
Mechanic: Bleeding
PVP Multiplier: 1

Effect #3

Trigger Spell

	Rupture

Effect #4

Trigger Spell

	Rupture

Effect #5

Trigger Spell

	Rupture

Flags

Is Ability
Cannot be used while shapeshifted
Do Not Sheath
Initiates Combat (Enabled Auto-Attack)
Discount Power On Miss
Requires main hand weapon
No Helpful Threat
Aura Never Bounces
Spell Haste Affects Periodic
Do Not Chain To Crowd-Controlled Targets
Taps immediately
Periodic Can Crit
Aura Points On Client
Enforce Facing on Primary Target Only
Allow Class Ability Procs
Nameplate Personal Buffs/Debuffs
Periodic Refresh Extends Duration
Chain by Most Hit

Guides

Assassination Artifact Guide Assassination Rogue Rotation Guide Legion Rogue Class Changes Warlords of Draenor Rogue Changes

Rupture

Buff

Spell Details

Guides

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