评论来自 15342

Drops from High Warlord Naj'entus in Black Tample.

评论来自 Skulver

I would be interested to hear of any Grull clearing guild that has a paladin MT. I have been reading the paladin boards religiously on wow-europe and have yet to hear any paladin claim he tanked Gruul (or any 25 man boss), well, one guy did but it was an april fools joke ...

What I am saying is that itemisation is all well and good, but adding paladin tanking gear to a tier 6 instance when paladins who get that far will clearly do so as holy spec is slightly redundant. Fix the mitigation and low health issues of paladins first then you might actually have paladins tanking beyond karazhan.

As far as itemisation it is exactly what paladins have been asking for though, tons of stamina, defense + dodge rating and a small bit of spell damage., no int or mp5 like so much of their other gear was encumbered with.

"If there was no reason for a palatank in Black Temple, why does this itemisation exist? =)"

Exactly the point I was making. Right now, there is no reason to have a prot paladin in your guild. From the moment a guild enters Gruul's lair they will be using warriors to tank because when you get beyond there "almost as effective as warriors" means "not as effective as warriors". The situations where they are better are basically aoe aggro generation (which warriors actually do quite well now with 3/3 improved thunderclap) which is not a boss viable purpose. Just adding items for prot paladins to endgame raids doesnt mean people will bring one just to use the items. The spec has to provide something worthwhile to justify being there to get the items and right now prot paladins don't.

Ferals get by due to being very good DPS when not tanking. Paladins are not very good healers when prot specced unless they go 20 points into holy thus missing out on some tanking talents from the Retribution tree.

Go to google video and search for "paladin tank", see how many endgame boss videos exist. None. It isn't some conspiracy against paladins but guilds evaluate them and find they just aren't good enough for 25 man tanking. So the question I am asking is "If paladins are not being made into viable big raid tanks then why put items for paladin tanks in those instances?".

评论来自 Skulver

"Long and short of it is that if your guild has not developed a pally MT, you are behind the curve."

I suspect the guilds at the forefront of raid progress would beg to differ with you on that score since they all use warrior tanks. I am also very tempted to make a "screenshot or it didn't happen" remark since I read paladin forums a lot and have yet to see anyone post a screenshot or movie of a paladin successfully tanking Gruul. Many of the most respected prot paladins have posted that they don't think paladin is viable as a guild MT unless you are willing to gimp your raid progression to benefit the ego of one paladin who insists on being MT.

The simple fact of the matter is that in equal gear a warrior has 1200 extra base health, about 350 extra from a statstick in his gun slot for about 1550 extra health not to mention that he takes 4.25% less damage (90% damage taken vs 94% damage taken) and has various panic buttons like shield wall and last stand to use in a pinch.

So your 17k buffed health would be compared to a warrior who with similar buffs and gear would have 19.55k health. Also since you take more damage your 17k health is the equal to having 16.27k health as a warrior. If you don't think having an effective 3.3k health on your guilds MT will make your guild more likely to succeed then I don't know what to say to that.

This huge health and mitigation difference is what makes the warrior superior. Say two 4k hits get past his blocks and both crush for 6k (back to back). After that the warrior has taken 12k * .9 = 10.8k damage. The paladin has taken two 4k hits, after mitigation 7.52k damage subtract the 520 for that blocked and you are left with 7k damage. In the absolute worst case scenario the warrior has taken 3.8k more damage than the paladin and for this you need a boss that hits for 4k every 1.25 seconds and a nightmare none get dodged/parried/miss situation and all land. In that nightmare scenario the warrior takes increased damage that just about sucks up his health advantage and then if needed can use shield wall or last stand to save the day.

With 50% miss / dodge / parry this will happen (0.5 * 0.5 * 0.15 * 0.15 * 6) = 3.37% of the time or about once every 150 seconds of tanking against that theoretical boss that hits for 4k after armor every 1.25 seconds. This is the only point at which the paladin out tanks the warrior for damage taken, 3% of the time against a boss that doesn't exist. The rest of the time the warrior is better.

评论来自 54908

That's me. The first time we downed Magtheridon was with me tanking at 17.4k health, FYI. You forget consumables like Flask of Fort and you also forget that pallies have thier 6% Stamina buff apply after raid buffs.

Adding more to the list of things you forget is the agility shaman totem, which pallies see a larger benefit from as thier agi/dodge ratio is significantly better than a warriors.

Check the Magtheridon screenshot to see what kind of gear I am wearing there? I healed on our first Gruul attempts because our Prot warrior is 100% useless if he isn't tanking, and I can still do baseline healing or mediocre DPS in different gear. If our warrior tank is there, I will either DPS or Heal, only because using him for any other purpose doesn't help our raid that much. Also if we are short healers on a Gruul attempt (we like to have 8) I will let a lesser geared warrior tank to bring the right classes. Just because a pally can tank doesn't mean he isn't a hybrid. However, all that being said I have successfully and easily tanked Gruul's Lair on more than one occassion. We alternate tanks on farm content in an effort to get more people trained up.

As for Magtheridon himself, we have found greater success with a pally tank, as snap aggro from the pally on Demons is much better and the inital aggro when Magtheridon pops can be an issue. Survivability is just fine with 17.4k health and all hits when you are below 6k hitting for 70%. With block value at a decent amount you can even survive a cleave at low health. Anyway, I have never died due to not having enough health on the Mag fight. Our Mag wipes have all been due to people not clicking the cubes properly or the summoners not going down fast enough. Oh, and just to be absolutely clear, I was the tank on our first kill of Magtheridon. So your arguement that progression needs to be handled by warriors is debunked.

So the long and short of it? I have been there and done all of the things you claim can't be done. The only real issue I see facing Tankadins is the fact that resistance based fights are all better with Warrior/Druid tanks and that our T5 is god awful. T6 is so amazingly good though that end-game will see a revival. Most likely due to the T5 gap I will need to go Ret/OT for TK. But having a well geared Pally Tank has been nothing but great for our guild.

As for Spiritual Attunement not providing enough mana, on real bosses it is more than enough. I have never come close to running low on mana on Gruul, Prince Malch or Magtheridon. The incoming damage, even with 60% avoidance, is just too high. And when you are figuring avoidance and uncrushable, don't forget to add in the Miss %, because I have been uncrushable for a long time now. You really just don't know anything about tanking if you think Dodge+Parry+Block have to add up to 70% to make a pally uncrushable. At worst its usually a 10% miss chance. Unbuffed I have 50% avoidance last time I checked, though I did recently lose some with the switch to the NB chest.

Lastly Skulver, I have to call you out for linking a pally with almost no epics. That's probably not your main if you are in a guild that is starting on SSC. Either that or your guildies hate you so much that you don't earn DKP. So link your real character please and stop showing us your undergeared pally alt char. If your guild is in SSC your main likely has a mix of T4 and Karazhan items.

评论来自 55024

Match Lightbringer

评论来自 krigath

This is the paladin tier 6 boots according to the official blizzard website, though it's not part of the actuall set.

http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/basics/armorsets/

评论来自 akaikage

Very good boots even for warriors. If you don't have t5 equivalent and no palatank are around, grab these while you wait for the warrior ones ^.^

评论来自 Theolol

In all truth, these *are not* the only boots matching Tier 6 for Paladins.

I've known Pearl Inlaid Boots for a while, and they have the same design (confirmed in-game, dropped for us): https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=32243

Actually, the overwhelming majority of raiding Paladins are Holy, which makes it only reasonable to have available these healer boots that match the T6 for them.

评论来自 56956

nice boots!

评论来自 81889

he craqwell, on which server are you, european, american, chinese, and whats youre char name, since i would like to see youre gear, so i have an idea what to go after for ^^

评论来自 53677

Wowhead must be bugged cause I see spell damage on these boots.

评论来自 93008

I'm (warlock) GM of a guild that has 5/6 SSC down, and 2/5 TK.

We have a tankadin, they are amazingly viable, if you're not using one, you're either stupid or like being really gimped.

Tankadin threat output is insane - our best recent example was tonight's Void Reaver. Our three tanks were the tankadin & two prot warriors. First prot warrior pulled, tankadin stole aggro very fast (possibly before next knockback) and then held aggro to ~20%, lost it for one knockback, got it back and then lost again at < 5%. DPS was high enough that it was just under a 8 minute kill.

That's single target threat. There's absolutely no comparison on AE threat, the gap between pally and warrior is even bigger.

Healing required is a bit higher than a warrior, but a lot smoother.

We have a "balanced" tanking team - 3 warriors, 2 ferals and the tankadin. I'd happily switch to two of each if I could, it would be a better overall team - the tankadin can substitute for a warrior, the reverse isn't really true.

Any tank can MT any boss we're facing (though we mostly use the warriors, partly because if they're not tanking they may as well go AFK, partly because they have the best "bag of tricks" as a MT) - but a pally is a substantially better OT.

评论来自 101482

wow guys. this thread is pretty full of insecurity. I'm a prot warrior, and i'll be the first to *tip my hat* to prot pally. try not to be worried or get too worked up about whether or not your a viable tank compared to a warrior. your guild is letting you tank right? sounds like your doin' alright to me.

评论来自 Denmon0728

Yeah! Palli's can tank! I've tanked as protection palli and it worked great!

评论来自 Kaata

I don't understand why every comments section on T6 pally tank items has to devolve into a discussion on our viability as tanks. And most of the comments (especially the lawl pallytank ones) appear to be made by people who have not and will not see T6 content.

At any rate, these are some very nice boots. I hope the listed droprate is wrong - they ended up dropping for my guild after about a month and a half, but I wasn't in the raid that time :'( Damn these bosses and their too-large loot tables!

评论来自 98621

so general consensus is that protection spec warriors are not needed any more because paladins has self proclaimed themselves to be the end all class? nether are warriors any good at off tanking or melee dps........according to you bunch of "experts".....correct.....your class is ...best at dps.......best at healing........best at tanking.......maybe blizzard should make a game soley for paladins in which they are the only class, I' am all for it......cause we warrior might as well afk cause you guys are just so great at.....Everything. Right? just seeking your ungodly clarification great ones.

评论来自 19887

These dropped for our paladin tank our very first Naj'entus kill.

评论来自 Allakhazam

I would feel sorry for any guild in which these drops, no one runs pallie tanks end-game. Not enough mitigation because they require +damage to hold aggro!

评论来自 Allakhazam

well if youre a warrior wearing these, you could tell people "It helps my thunderstomp" lol :p

评论来自 Allakhazam

Well I'll be damned... pally tank gear. It really does exist.

评论来自 Allakhazam

wtf why did they put healing on theese?

评论来自 Thottbot

Paladins are very good in off-tanking groups of trash. At least at SSC and TK they are OK. Hope we will not force our two tankadins to respec when we reach BT/Hyjal.

评论来自 Thottbot

you can offtank trash in holy & MT heroics if you can get the gear for it,same as dps warriors(ocasional crusing blows shouldnt be a huge prob on thos).Its just the matter of time geting gear and spending money on enchants/gems etc for it. And ofc your first priority will be the healing set. When i have spare dkp i spend it on tanking gear(in my guild you can buy the item for half price as hybrid gear if noone is need biding it)

评论来自 Thottbot

Tankadins do excist. Our OT is a tankadin, and shes perfect<3 So l2p slackers. Post a comment again when you get to hyjal.

评论来自 Thottbot

some bosses are easier though with the constant aoe to pick up adds, an aoe with insane agro.

评论来自 Thottbot

Well i have seen the differance between Warrior Tanks and Paladin Tanks.

Warrior Tank
-Pro: Able to take massive amounts of damage with ease, good for low amounts of groups, very good for bosses.

-Cons: Have a poor time handling Aggro, this i have witnessed many times and even our casters are taking aggro from them and its bad..very very bad.

Paladin Tank
-Pro: You will not be able to take aggro from them as soon as they get a proper lock: Avenger's Shield, Concencration + Righteous Fury. With proper gear they can take the boss damage if possible. Can take numerous mobs and never lose aggro. (Especially demon or undead)

-Con: God help it if there is a caster. Wont get much off like a warrior but nonethe still still good.

Conclusion.
Both are good, all situational all useful. But for the love of god dont use these to tank a caster...seriously we will have problems, get the lock to tank casters. Or the caster part of the combat.

评论来自 Thottbot

I think there is alot of prejudgement of paladin mitigation. Yes we don't have shield wall, but we have lay on hands to save us and its instant cast and can be used without any mana).
Yes we probably 1k less hp than a warrior with equal gear, but
Improved Holy Shield has 12 charges and lasts for 8 seconds, meaning we have to block 12 times in 8 seconds for it to end. It raises our block rating by 35% with libram of repentence, so if tankadin is uncrushable with it, tankadni basicially is CONSTNATLY UNCRUSHABLE. We are never taking crushing blows as opposed to a warrior whose shield block ends with the first blockk or after 5 s without talent (2s with talent). Prot warriors will take crushing blows while uncrushable tankadins will not (With kara gear or higher, tankadin will be uncrushable). Most bosses hit faster than 2 s. So, while warriors are taking 8k crushing blows and only 1k hp to offset, we are never taking crushing blows, only dodging, parrying or blocking a (typical SSC boss hits 4k blocked) or npc/boss misses us. So anyway, each class tank has different mechanisms of mitigation and I think it all evens out....

All my healers think I am very easy to heal on SSC bosses and mobs and I have level 115-130 gear.

Tankadin uncrushable with 13.5k hp unbuffed and 23% dodge and 344 spell dmg (very high end spell dmg) gg

People need to see how a uncrushable tankadin takes dmg instead of prejudging or making up crap and then tell me how it compares to warrior. (Again kara gear or better makes tankadin uncrushable.)

评论来自 Thottbot

@Bgr
Rather clueless eh?
most paladin tanks have enough to be uncrushable before they start karazhan without redoubt up
with 20% block 17% parry 20% dodge 490 def (10% to be missed, Base miss chance + that from def) and the heroic badge libram (+5.4% or so to holy shield block chance) a paladin tank has 102.4% total avoidance+block without redoubt

and yes, I do have over this on my own paladin, in fact I'm about 2% over uncrushable

评论来自 Thottbot

Paladins definantly don't need redoubt up to be uncrushable. with kara gear and the proper trinkets paladins can reach uncrushability rather easy. since i have reached uncrushability i have never seen a crushing blow on myself.That has been at least 6 months. I have been a pally tank for a while been uncrushable for a while. Been tanking in ssc and tk for a while.

Warriors will always be the best tanks period. they will always have more mitigation more avoidance and higher hp due to the pally having to sacrifice shield block damage and other mitigation/avoidance for spell damage. plus their are things that are just to hard for a pally to tank like casters, any mob that mana drains, the crystal forge guys that do 13k damage without spell reflect (which is warriors only at the moment), any boss that fears .I have 375 spell damage with a weapon oil and food and I see very little diff in threat generation between a a pally, warrior, druid, and often is very complicated to use avenge shield and conscecrate in big raids because most pulls have alot off cc that break and move into your area spells often and that is a good bit of aggro you won't be doing. But all that said a pally can tank any melle boss as well as a warrior or druid he should never see a crushing blow but will always take at least 200 more damage per hit than a same geared warrior will always avoid less overall but i think that is offset by never being crushed. I think every serious raiding guild should have at least 1 pally tank for ssc/tk it makes alot of things go alot easier its not a have to have thing but will make a huge impact on time it takes to do some bosses and trash pulls in both places.

To be uncrushable you need 102.something avoidance . Which is figured as automatic 4.7 percent miss chance by a skull con lvl 73 boss whatever your defense modifier is (at 512 defense its around 6.3 percent or so). then pop holy shield and add up block,dodge,parry

评论来自 Thottbot

so you just need 490 def.. aint that sortof old news

评论来自 Thottbot

These boots look great on Lightbringer set (Paladin Tier 6)!

评论来自 Thottbot

this is definetly pally tanking boots...

it's got spell damage :D

So um, yay, a good pair of boots for tankadins :P

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