Paul Kubit on Covenant Swapping - Changing Should be Easy, Changing Back Should be Hard

Shadowlands Posted 2020/07/09 at 3:44 PM by Archimtiros

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To switch a Covenant, if you feel like you've made a mistake, you joined the Kyrian's but you're really a Venthyr, you should be able to do that with little to no penalty at all. The penalty comes when you switch back, when you decide, actually no I want to go back to the Kyrains. At that point, fantasy wise, you've betrayed their trust; how can we trust you're not a double agent of the Venthyr if you've left and rejoined, so that's where it will take some effort to get back.

The specific penalty hasn't been determined, but I would imagine there is some period of time, say on the order of week and a half/two weeks, don't hold me on that, but something like that where you have to re-earn the trust that you lost with them. Not impossible, something that you could do, very possible between raid seasons, but something which should be very difficult to do so you won't be incentivized to pick a different covenant for raid one week and Mythic+ the next, or one raid boss and then switch back over for another raid boss.

In this upcoming beta, there's going to be a lot more game play affecting systems which are tied to covenants which come to light. enough that hopefully the choice of a covenant becomes less like choosing an ability in a talent row, which is kind of how it feels now, and instead choosing between two classes - you're not just choosing an ability, but a pair of abilities along with a suite of additional passives and powers which come from Soulbinds you're able to tie to, benefits from your Covenant sanctum, and more. This should be something where still there are going to be cases where a particular Covenant choice might do better on a particular fight or situation in PvP, but we'd like to avoid a situation where "if you'd like to do Mythic+, this is the best Covenant for you, and it's going to be better in all cases in Mythic+, same for raiding, or PvP, and other primary ways of playing the game". There will for sure be cases where you'll say "alright, in this fight which involves single target damage and a lot of movement, yes the Venythr power is best", but in a more spread fight or in a single target fight even where it doesn't involve a lot of movement then maybe you'll do better in this fight, and that gives different players an opportunities to shine based on their covenant choices.

My take on this is that I think it's ok if people who want to play optimally choose their covenant because it's optimal. There are lots of reasons to choose a covenant: for RP reasons, cosmetic reasons, and the power of your character in a particular type of content is one of them.

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Comment by AlakeiThancanChanging Covenant should be hard. Like super hard. Booty Bay guards VS Bloodsails kind of hard.

BUT SWAPPING POWERS SHOULDN'T BE.

(And imo transmogs and mounts should be usable on alts even if they're not from the same covenant)Comment by TOMRUSOfc Blizzard got it all wrong again. Make Convenants swap with no restrictions!Comment by ZtalmernaWell depends on what the covenants bring... and sure we know a lot of the abilities now. But yeh if you raid and 1 covenant is good, but for M+ it's bad... swapping back in a timespan of a week (or more) is ... badComment by slemaireSeems reasonable to me.Comment by dembroYep. If the difference in Covenant choice can be as low as 1-2%, that's a dream scenario and most reasonable people will pick based upon their own personal taste. I think that's extremely unlikely, but I'm hoping it's still not THAT huge; 5-8% at most. The sad truth is, even if the Covenants are nearly perfectly balanced throughput-wise, people will then be "forced" to take certain Covenants because of their Signature abilities. "I NEED that Venthyr teleport for this boss fight!" or, "That Necrolord shield is the only thing that lets me survive this Tyrannical boss's one-shot attack!". In other words, if throughput is reasonably balanced, then people will decide based on utility. Just like classes, which Covenants are basically a lesser version of.

While I'm still reserving judgment until I see the finalized penalties for switching, I'd prefer this design philosophy over the one to change Azerite armor traits, for instance. Switching should be easy, switching back should require a bit of effort. Ideally, however, no significant progress in terms of Renown, Sanctum development, Soulbinds, etc. would be lost. That "time-out" period after switching back should stop you from progressing, but it shouldn't lock away all the stuff you've earned so far. But maybe that's not a harsh enough penalty. We'll see.Comment by kalfeerI get the fantasy element they are going for. The current player base is going to go for this like a transatlantic flight on a lead zeppelin. Blizzard has created a game environment of min/max and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth over this.Comment by WarderDragonSounds good to me, I like decisions that have consequences and I've wished WoW would've had more of them from the start.Comment by SpacetaurenOfc Blizzard got it all wrong again. Make Convenants swap with no restrictions!Comment by angeleyedI like this system more. People should grow up and make choices based on what they like. 99.99% of the playerbase doesn't switch class on a daily basis based on what's strong, why should it be different for covenants?Comment by OldGrommI think that's a fair compromise for the casual playerbase. If they want to check out all four covenants with just one character, they can do so. Only if they want to play the min/max game do they get punished.Comment by AshirayaI actually agree with Blizzard on this, but I predict the hardcore playerbase (and the massively larger playerbase that thinks they’re more hardcore than they actually are) will complain endlessly until covenants are nothing more than skins of each other.

I hope Blizzard won't cave.Comment by FutureMarie95I like this, very reasonable.
Of course I can see the min/maxing mythic whatever power player's will rage and shout until Blizz caves in to their demands.Comment by SpacetaurenIdeally, however, no significant progress in terms of Renown, Sanctum development, Soulbinds, etc. would be lost. That "time-out" period after switching back should stop you from progressing, but it shouldn't lock away all the stuff you've earned so far. But maybe that's not a harsh enough penalty. We'll see.I like this, very reasonable.
Of course I can see the min/maxing mythic whatever power player's will rage and shout until Blizz caves in to their demands.Comment by AlakeiThancanI like this system more. People should grow up and make choices based on what they like. 99.99% of the playerbase doesn't switch class on a daily basis based on what's strong, why should it be different for covenants?Comment by kaleestrazaI like this system more. People should grow up and make choices based on what they like. 99.99% of the playerbase doesn't switch class on a daily basis based on what's strong, why should it be different for covenants?Comment by AcusiontOfc Blizzard got it all wrong again. Make Convenants swap with no restrictions!Comment by KrohnutzSo that work I previously did for said Covenant is irrelevant to them because I went to help balance out another Covenant? I mean, yeah that doesn't make them sound &*!@#y or anything.

I mean, the Crown of England left both Catholicism and Protestantism and for some reason they kept taking them back. Oh wait, it was because it was good for the church to have the power on their side.

In all seriousness, do it where you have to build up your standing with a covenant and unlock this or that, but make it so you can do it for all four and swap between them. Why do you limit your content market willingly? You have programmers develop all of this and you only want to feed us 1/4 of it? That makes no sense.

And lastly, stop making us idiot tools. Covenants don't own us, we are here to help, they either want it or don't. For once in our stupid gaming characters life, be proactive in dealing with these NPCs that NEED OUR HELP instead of "oh, you need me to save you AND kiss your ass? Got it!"

I'M OUT!Comment by DemowareBlizzard, players DO NOT WANT TO BE PUNISHED FOR PLAYING YOUR GAME. Stop implementing systems that do that FFS!
How have you not learned this with the dozens of systems through the last decade that players HATED?Comment by livingwillI know tuning is something they are going to do, but have they seen what's in venthyr? How it even close? I can maybe make an argument for Night Fae. But what in the world, this is like, base abilities they have worked out. I'm sorry but this needs to change, and I'd prefer they bring the other covenants up to Venthyr's level instead of nerfing Venthyr, because it does look extremely fun and powerful to play.Comment by vengeance1Now you just know there's going to be an achievement for joining (and maxing) all the covenants.

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