Feral Druid State on Shadowlands Alpha - Spell Changes, Covenant Abilities, Bloodtalons

Posted 2020/06/16 at 2:23 AM by Guiltyas

IntroductionAbout the AuthorDreamgrove discordFeral guide Youtube Twitter Twitch What has ChangedhereBase Druid Changes

Cyclone - Has been added as a baseline spell for all Druid Specs, I don't think this will be particularly impactful in PvE but there are some fringe cases it might be useful, no complaints about this change.

Improved Barkskin - Has been added as a baseline spell for all Druid Specs, I've discussed this in more detail in a later section!

Ironfur - Has been added as a baseline spell for all Druid Specs, much like Cyclone. I don't think this change does much but I'm not going to complain about it!

Feral Druid Changes

Survival Instincts - Now only has a single charge and a 3 minute cooldown, I've discussed my feelings on this and the Barkskin change above in more detail below.

Feral Talent Changes

Bloodtalons - has been redesigned. It now affects your next two finishers and procs after casting Rake, Thrash, and Shred within 3 seconds of each other, I've discussed this in detail below but for those who dislike reading, I quite like this new design!

Affinities now have additional utility effects attached to them, I think that this is a good step but I've discussed my thoughts more below.
Balance Affinity - Now grants Typhoon.

Restoration Affinity - Now grants Ursol's Vortex.

Guardian Affinity - Now grants Incapacitating Roar.

Heart of the WildCovenant AbilitiesKyrian:

Kindred Spirits - This is by far and away the most boring of any of the covenant abilities. It's a boring 1 minute CD stat increase. I cannot stress how dull of an addition it is. While it conjures images of a better time (Symbiosis) in actual fact it's a fairly one dimensional ability that grants an uninteresting stat bonus. To add onto how boring of an ability it is it also has some issues, I think we learned way back in Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm that single person buffs that increase power just cause drama in raids (Hello Hysteria and Dark Intent).

Summon Steward - To add onto an exceedingly boring class ability comes an exceedingly boring Covenant ability. The main combat part of this is a flask that will heal you for a portion of your health and remove bleeds, poisons, and diseases. It also gives you access to a talent changing station and a repair bot. I think the ability is fine and will probably be fairly useful on some fights. It's not very interesting or fun though.

Venthyr:

Ravenous Frenzy - Stacking damage boost on a 3 minute CD, the Idle period can also be stacked by non combat abilities such as Soothe and Remove Corruption, also has some extremely nice quality of life, if you are CCed while the buff is ticking down it will not trigger the negative effects from being Idle, Nothing too fascinating outside of that but it does give our rather lackluster CDs a bit more oomph.

Door of Shadows - There's been a LOT of talk about this particular covenant ability and how "gamebreaking" it is. I definitely don't agree. I think it's super overrated and has super limited combat value, especially on a spec like Feral with such high baseline mobility. There's no such thing as too much mobility but there certainly is such a thing as diminishing returns on your mobility, the more mobility you have the less you need more, and I think this lands solidly in that category (especially with a cast time attached).

Necrolord:

Adaptive Swarm - Fairly short CD DoT/HoT that also empowers your own DoTs/HoTs. Due to the way the CD and duration line up you can have 2 of these out for some multi-target value. I have the least strong feelings about this particular ability. it feels fine to play, and anything that boosts our DOT value is kind of A-okay in my book.

Fleshcraft - I actually think that this is the best covenant ability for feral. The shield is pretty large baseline and you can make it even larger. The channel time is a bit annoying but it has a really long duration. It's not super flashy but it's more interesting than Kyrian

Night Fae:

Convoke the Spirits - I had some strong words about this Covenant when I tested it initially, since then it's been improved but it's still a bit of a mess. This ability casts 16 different druid spells in 4 seconds, now more strongly favoring your spec spells which is good, but the variance can still be frustrating. To make it worse it has other issues, it is a 4 second channel which is cancelled by moving, which for a spec that is a) melee and b) so mobile feels AWFUL, you would not believe the number of times that I cancelled it by melee strafing when testing it. I think the best way to think of this from a gameplay perspective is basically that it's a big Ashamane's Frenzy or Feral Frenzy but it feels significantly worse than either of those abilities to use. Hopefully this is reiterated upon.

Soulshape - Much like Door of Shadows this lands in the "do we really need this much mobility" category, and we kind of don't but this particular ability is a lot more interesting (who doesn't love a collection minigame). I actually also think this has more potential combat value than door of shadows due to it's Instant nature. Baseline however the form is about as fast as Travel form, so on outside fights we won't gain that much value from the movement speed.

The Elephant in the RoomSabertoothSabertoothSabertoothRipRipRipSabertoothFerocious BiteFerocious BiteSabertoothFerocious BiteSabertoothSabertoothFerocious BiteSabertoothRipRakeFerocious BiteThe ChangesBloodtalonsBloodtalonsRakeShredThrashRipFerocious BitePrimal WrathBloodtalonsBloodtalonsBloodtalonsClearcastingShredWild FleshrendingThrashSwipeBloodtalonsShredThrashBloodtalonsBloodtalonsAffinity Utility (and Heart of the Wild)TyphoonUrsol's VortexIncapacitating RoarTyphoonHeart of the WildHeart of the WildBalance AffinityTyphoonHeart of the WildInnervateBalance AffinityInnervateStampeding RoarDefensivesSurvival InstinctsBarkskinSurvival InstinctsSurvival InstinctsBarkskinBear FormThe WishlistBerserkBerserkBerserkBerserkBerserkBerserkBerserkTiger's FuryBerserkBerserkAOEScent of BloodBrutal SlashPrimal WrathBrutal SlashPrimal WrathScent of BloodPrimal WrathBrutal SlashSwipeScent of BloodBrutal SlashPrimal WrathScent of BloodFeral UtilityStampeding Roar

Warrior - Battle Shout + Rallying Cry

Demon Hunter - Chaos Brand + Darkness

Rogue - Cloak of Shadows

Retribution Paladin - Divine Shield

Death Knight - Death Grip + Anti-Magic Zone

12 3 4

Comment by CarnigoLooking forward to play Feral in SL. Leveling in BfA was a pain, I have high hopes SL will be much better and I can enjoy my kitty ;)Comment by reconsp65You forget we bring Rebirth at 100% and now we have a Stampeding Roar CD.
Also having 2 Defensives + bear form is extremely strong meaning there is multiple mechanics we can laugh at. Barkskin + bear form is extremely powerful. Does we as Feral have acces to the guardian Frenzied Regen without having to affinity for it in SL? if so Adaptive Swarm + Frenzied Regen is a great combo!Comment by TherealmomoThankyou for looking after Feral, i tried to main it in 8.3 but it was painful as it just did not bring enough to the table and Berserking is absolutely awful. I don't know how a CD like that has stayed like that for so long.Comment by Albertpm95I wish they changed T15row with 3 energy oriented talents, like the 2 legion rings (one merged with predator) and +X% of energy regen and SotF and T100 row.Comment by HrodgirIs no one gonna comment on how Feral Affinity gives you Maim as the CC bonus?

Typhoon, Ursol's Vortex and Incapacitating Roar are all usable in any form, at any time and they cost nothing.
Maim however requires you to go into catform, generate a bunch of get compo points to then spend them on the Stun, compo points that would otherwise be spend on Rip/Bite for dmg (the reason you'd want Feral Affinity in the first place).

Compared to Incapacitating Roar, Typhoon and Ursol's Vortex makes it seem borderline unusable.
Hell, if you're looking for a stun then the next talent row has you covered. Mighty Bash is straight up a better stun than Maim with the only exception being the longer cooldown.

It'd make WAY more sense to make Mighty Bash the Feral Affinity CC bonus rather than Maim. Replacing Mighty Bash's talent option with Cyclone would open up for faaar more interesting choices in those two rows in terms of CC/utility. Cyclone is already rather situational just like AoE roots and HotW are.Comment by DraenilI like how survival hunter was completely left out of the final discussion on melee raid utility. It also suffers from the exact same issue as feral. They bring nothing that the other specs don't. Also enhance is getting Windfury which could lock it a raid spot in SL.Comment by IncandioI like how survival hunter was completely left out of the final discussion on melee raid utility. It also suffers from the exact same issue as feral. They bring nothing that the other specs don't. Also enhance is getting Windfury which could lock it a raid spot in SL.Comment by IncandioI am a filthy casual who has maimed a Feral for years and years. I like these guides and I know they are intended for a certain audience which is certainly not me, but I enjoy reading them, it's interesting to hear about these issues. That being said, I do think sometimes this website and others grow up around a rather narrow and unrepresentative community of players, and they tend sometimes to be unable to see beyond the ends of their own noses.

So, above for example we have a complaint that you cannot switch Covenants, and this is described as being awful and a punishment for players who "want to participate in multiple aspects of the game". Well, I have to say that is exactly the sort of narrow thinking that bothers me. Covenants are clearly an aspect of the game, like class, like melee vs ranged (with some exceptions), like role, like professions, which you must use an alt to access, or which have a cost to switch, and the fact that these difficult to change, meaningful choices exist is part of what makes an RPG a roleplaying game, not a RSG, a roleselecting game. You choose a role, and the role becomes your fixed (to an extent) identity. If all roles can just be changed at the snap of the fingers, then there is no identity.

I have heard Ion talk about the reasons for not being able to easily switch, and actually it is something he is passionate about, because it stems (it seems) from his love of RPG and fantasy. And that is an important thing to protect in this game. If all design decisions are based around the needs and desires of players who want to min / max their DPS or healing in ST or AOE situations, then the game would quickly become nothing more than a game of numbers. I WANT there to be meaningful choices, based on fantasy, and I do not care if that means in certain situations I fare marginally worse than others (and we are talking about quite small margins here). I will accept that even if it means it becomes problematic to balance. I certainly do not want a ridiculous world in which I supposedly align myself with Covenant X, and then decide, Oh, tonight I am facing this raid boss, so I need to switch my allegiance to Covenant Y.Comment by CerberonIs no one gonna comment on how Feral Affinity gives you Maim as the CC bonus?

Typhoon, Ursol's Vortex and Incapacitating Roar are all usable in any form, at any time and they cost nothing.
Maim however requires you to go into catform, generate a bunch of get compo points to then spend them on the Stun, compo points that would otherwise be spend on Rip/Bite for dmg (the reason you'd want Feral Affinity in the first place).

Compared to Incapacitating Roar, Typhoon and Ursol's Vortex makes it seem borderline unusable.
Hell, if you're looking for a stun then the next talent row has you covered. Mighty Bash is straight up a better stun than Maim with the only exception being the longer cooldown.

It'd make WAY more sense to make Mighty Bash the Feral Affinity CC bonus rather than Maim. Replacing Mighty Bash's talent option with Cyclone would open up for faaar more interesting choices in those two rows in terms of CC/utility. Cyclone is already rather situational just like AoE roots and HotW are.Comment by CerberonI am a filthy casual who has maimed a Feral for years and years. I like these guides and I know they are intended for a certain audience which is certainly not me, but I enjoy reading them, it's interesting to hear about these issues. That being said, I do think sometimes this website and others grow up around a rather narrow and unrepresentative community of players, and they tend sometimes to be unable to see beyond the ends of their own noses.

So, above for example we have a complaint that you cannot switch Covenants, and this is described as being awful and a punishment for players who "want to participate in multiple aspects of the game". Well, I have to say that is exactly the sort of narrow thinking that bothers me. Covenants are clearly an aspect of the game, like class, like melee vs ranged (with some exceptions), like role, like professions, which you must use an alt to access, or which have a cost to switch, and the fact that these difficult to change, meaningful choices exist is part of what makes an RPG a roleplaying game, not a RSG, a roleselecting game. You choose a role, and the role becomes your fixed (to an extent) identity. If all roles can just be changed at the snap of the fingers, then there is no identity.

I have heard Ion talk about the reasons for not being able to easily switch, and actually it is something he is passionate about, because it stems (it seems) from his love of RPG and fantasy. And that is an important thing to protect in this game. If all design decisions are based around the needs and desires of players who want to min / max their DPS or healing in ST or AOE situations, then the game would quickly become nothing more than a game of numbers. I WANT there to be meaningful choices, based on fantasy, and I do not care if that means in certain situations I fare marginally worse than others (and we are talking about quite small margins here). I will accept that even if it means it becomes problematic to balance. I certainly do not want a ridiculous world in which I supposedly align myself with Covenant X, and then decide, Oh, tonight I am facing this raid boss, so I need to switch my allegiance to Covenant Y.Comment by Baghita Cyclone - Has been added as a baseline spell for all Druid Specs, I don't think this will be particularly impactful in PvE but there are some fringe cases it might be useful, no complaints about this change. Comment by FroschlampiWarrior - Battle Shout + Rallying Cry
Demon Hunter - Chaos Brand + Darkness
Rogue - Cloak of Shadows
Retribution Paladin - Divine Shield
Death Knight - Death Grip + Anti-Magic Zone

sounds like you want those to be cat ability so you are once again useful in m+ or raids? druids have the most heavy toolkit ingame.

RemovedComment by grenadier001Sorry, but no. I drastically prefer Sabertooth to wasting combo points to maintain a dot. Especially because it was damn near mandatory to do 5 point rips to get reliable bloodtalon procs.

Dots are boring, especial Feral Dots, ESPECIALLY RIP that doesn't interact with anything but bloodtalons and exists entirely as a DPS tax on a feral druid.

If Rip had a shorter duration, MUCH higher damage and didn't just work exactly as a Tax that will forever make Feral Druids ass on short encounters, then you'd have an argument.Comment by HrodgirIs no one gonna comment on how Feral Affinity gives you Maim as the CC bonus?

Typhoon, Ursol's Vortex and Incapacitating Roar are all usable in any form, at any time and they cost nothing.
Maim however requires you to go into catform, generate a bunch of get compo points to then spend them on the Stun, compo points that would otherwise be spend on Rip/Bite for dmg (the reason you'd want Feral Affinity in the first place).

Compared to Incapacitating Roar, Typhoon and Ursol's Vortex makes it seem borderline unusable.
Hell, if you're looking for a stun then the next talent row has you covered. Mighty Bash is straight up a better stun than Maim with the only exception being the longer cooldown.

It'd make WAY more sense to make Mighty Bash the Feral Affinity CC bonus rather than Maim. Replacing Mighty Bash's talent option with Cyclone would open up for faaar more interesting choices in those two rows in terms of CC/utility. Cyclone is already rather situational just like AoE roots and HotW are.isComment by KlaerkeWarrior - Battle Shout + Rallying Cry
Demon Hunter - Chaos Brand + Darkness
Rogue - Cloak of Shadows
Retribution Paladin - Divine Shield
Death Knight - Death Grip + Anti-Magic Zone

sounds like you want those to be cat ability so you are once again useful in m+ or raids? druids have the most heavy toolkit ingame.

whoever is writing guides here, small minded and not very inspiring.Comment by grenadier001Is no one gonna comment on how Feral Affinity gives you Maim as the CC bonus?

Typhoon, Ursol's Vortex and Incapacitating Roar are all usable in any form, at any time and they cost nothing.
Maim however requires you to go into catform, generate a bunch of get compo points to then spend them on the Stun, compo points that would otherwise be spend on Rip/Bite for dmg (the reason you'd want Feral Affinity in the first place).

Compared to Incapacitating Roar, Typhoon and Ursol's Vortex makes it seem borderline unusable.
Hell, if you're looking for a stun then the next talent row has you covered. Mighty Bash is straight up a better stun than Maim with the only exception being the longer cooldown.

It'd make WAY more sense to make Mighty Bash the Feral Affinity CC bonus rather than Maim. Replacing Mighty Bash's talent option with Cyclone would open up for faaar more interesting choices in those two rows in terms of CC/utility. Cyclone is already rather situational just like AoE roots and HotW are.isComment by 1412075This post was from a user who has deleted their account.Comment by grenadier001Warrior - Battle Shout + Rallying Cry
Demon Hunter - Chaos Brand + Darkness
Rogue - Cloak of Shadows
Retribution Paladin - Divine Shield
Death Knight - Death Grip + Anti-Magic Zone

sounds like you want those to be cat ability so you are once again useful in m+ or raids? druids have the most heavy toolkit ingame.

whoever is writing guides here, small minded and not very inspiring.Comment by CodemagusI like how survival hunter was completely left out of the final discussion on melee raid utility. It also suffers from the exact same issue as feral. They bring nothing that the other specs don't. Also enhance is getting Windfury which could lock it a raid spot in SL.Comment by grenadier001I like how survival hunter was completely left out of the final discussion on melee raid utility. It also suffers from the exact same issue as feral. They bring nothing that the other specs don't. Also enhance is getting Windfury which could lock it a raid spot in SL.

12 3 4