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Warlock Guide: Talents & Specs for WotLK 3.3
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Post by
Blightman
I do NOT intend to make a 4+ version of this FAQ
This post
here
has everything you need
IMO: You can now spend talent points at random and end up with a viable, if not optimal, pve spec. The worst spec, besides 0/0/0, that I can find is
http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#IMGdRGcGsdoZ0b
. It has 8 "wasted points". The 2 in Improved Immolate are completly wasted, the other 6 could be valid if the lock was trying to be a fear CC master(yeah lame). My point is there is not a need for an in depth understanding of the talents anymore.
Table of Contents
Affliction v3.3
Demonology v3.3
Destruction v3.3
Specs v3.3
Reserved
I will be using a scale of 1 to 5.
Rank 1 - why do you have this talent?
Rank 2 - you can probably get more from another talent
Rank 3 - good, optional talent
Rank 4 - very good talent
Rank 5 - skipping this talent is crazy
Many talents are interrelated, talent A may be a rank1 or 2 without talent B. For example, Improved Felhunter is a weak talent without Dark pact. Most rankings are not based on cross tree relationships. Certain talents may be specced for a specific purpose, in that case consider it a 5. For example an affliction lock in a raiding guild may be required by his guild to have Malediction.
I will rank talents for 3 areas of the game:
PvP: PvP comes in several flavors: World(raid), World(solo), Arena, Battleground, and Dueling. Overall the benefits from the talents to PvP will be the same.
PvE(Instance): Dungeons and Raids. Focus will be slanted to raids
PvE(Solo): Leveling and farming
Also check out these topics in our forum:
The basics - hit, crit, haste, and spell damage
- for important information on stats and how they work for locks. A lot of information is covered in it and the subsequent comments. Specifically look at the discussion about HIT from talents vs HIT from gear.
The Warlock: From Levels 1-60- Complete, Yet Not
- While kappa and I don't view everything the same, it is a good primer for new locks. He still needs to take out the reference to casting CoD on players
Post by
Blightman
Affliction
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Focuses on debuffs and drains. You will have more DOTs and they will work better. A very mana efficient tree.
Raid Pet: Felhunter
Tier 1:
Improved Curse of Agony
PvP: 1 or 2
PvE(Instance): 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 4 or 5
Comments: With this talent and the glyph, CoA's theoretical DPS is higher than CoD's DPS. The low ranking for PvP is that against many classes CoEx will be used instead, feel free to consider it ranked 1 point higher in PvP if CoEx is not the best choice.
Suppression
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: With the change to affect hit for all spells, this talent is gold. It is simply the best Tier 1 lock talent for any spec or tree. In simplest terms think of it as a 3% DPS increase. Who shouldn't have this talent? A lock who has best in slot for all their equipment and that equipment hit caps them without gem/enchants being spent for hit. Pretty sure that is not possible so pick up this talent.
Improved Corruption
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: All affliction locks should have 5/5 of this. Demo and Destro locks wanting to go further into affliction tree will find iCoA+Suppression a better bargain
Tier 2:
Improved Curse of Weakness
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 2 or 4
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: Formerly known as Frailty, this talent has not changed significantly but
curse of weakness
has. Still doesn't make this a great talent. It looks like the armor reduction will stack but the AP reduction will not. So you will still only be using this in very melee heavy raids with no druid(faerie fire) to boost raid damage. Or in heroics with pally tanks.
Improved Drain Soul
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: The threat reduction is very useful for instances. When soloing it does help the pet keep aggro longer but its biggest use is for mana regen
Improved Life Tap
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance); 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: The best in the tier. All affliction locks should have 2/2 of this.
Soul Siphon
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Even after the nerf it is still a good talent. If you are planning on doing any drain tanking then you should get 2/2 in this talent. The highest rank of
Drain Soul
is a monster below 25%. The 4X damage is applied after the benefits from this talent.
Tier 3:
Improved Fear
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: In someways better than CoEx. If you are this far into affliction and plan on PvPing then fill in this talent.
Fel Concentration
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 2
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Even with the changes to pushback this remains a key affliction talent
Amplify Curse
PvP: 5*
PvE(Instance); 1
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: It gets a 5 for PvP only because this is the only way to get CoEx. If you are not getting CoEx skip this talent.
Tier 4:
Grim Reach
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Very solid talent.
Nightfall
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Add some nice burst damage to affliction. On a single target with corruption+drain life gives about a 5% chance per second to proc. The
Glyph of Corruption
can boost this a little. They do stack in that each tick of Corruption can trigger either Shadow trance they don't stack in that if both Nightfall and GoC proc on the same tick only 1 instant cast SB will result. Some people love this talent and some don't.
Empowered Corruption
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Nothing to not like about this talent.
Tier 5:
Shadow Embrace
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 5
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Makes killing druids much easier in PvP, Dots hit harder and their HoTs get weaker. Good DPS boost for instances.
Siphon Life
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: I can not see a reason to NOT have this talent. It is possibly the single best talent in the tree. For PvP and PvE(solo) consider the
Glyph of Siphon Life
. The changes to this are very nice. Basically get roughly the same DPS via boosting corruption/UA and get the healing affect on without the GCD or mana cost.
Curse of Exhaustion
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: This curse is great for kiting. If you are this far into the tree and plan on doing PvP then get this talent.
Tier 6:
Improved Felhunter
PvP: 1 or 3
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Biggest boost from this talent is the DPS increase to the felhound.
Shadow Mastery
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: 15% DPS to all shadow spells....Yes Please! With the boost to felhound's Shadow Bite this talent just got better(was already a 5)
Tier 7:
Eradication
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: The removal of the GCD has made this a better talent. The change so that the 1st 2 points add 6% and the last adds 8% is also a good change. I'm sure there will be a lot of debate over how many points you should take. Simple rule would be that 1pt is great, 2 points is good, and nothing wrong with 3 points. The amount of haste you have on your gear will be a factor in how effective this talent will be for you.
Contagion
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: another no brainer, more damage and in PvP fewer dispels.
Dark Pact
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Between raid mana regen and the ability to get way more mane per GCD from life tap have made this a 2ns rank talent.
Tier 8:
Improved Howl of Terror
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great for PvP, useful "Uh-Oh" button when soloing.
Glyph of Howl of Terror
is a great compliment to this talent
Malediction
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: This talent will provide at about a 3% DPS increase. Sure it doesn't boost pet damage but the extra "crits" makes up for that
Tier 9:
Death's Embrace
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: strong in PvP for finishing or drain tanking them. Helps finish off bosses. Combined with
Drain Soul(rank6)
for impressive damage
Unstable Affliction
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great for silencing those pesky dispellers. Nice DPs for instances.
Glyph of Unstable Affliction
good in PvP and makes keeping all your DOTs up in PvE easier
Pandemic
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: At 1 point it is a nice talent. The folding of siphon life into corruption also enhances this talent. Now if they would just add CoA and CoD to this talent.
Tier 10:
Everlasting Affliction
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Overall a good talent.
Tier 11:
Haunt
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Arguably the best 51pt talent for warlocks even after the DOT damage nerf. Should not pass this spell up.
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Post by
Blightman
Demonology
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Focuses on more powerful pets and warlocks. Less variety in spells but many talents to focus the few you do have. Pets are stronger and there is a strong synergy between pet and lock. Lock gains a lot of durability.
Raid pet: Felguard
Tier 1:
Improved Healthstone
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 4
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Great in PvP especially paired with
Glyph of Healthstone
. Useful when raiding, more so with potion sickness.
Improved Imp
PvP: 1 or 3
PvE(Instance); 1 or 5
PvE(Solo): 1 or 3
Comments: It is a 1 for Felguard builds and affliction builds. Mainly for destruction builds these days
Demonic Embrace
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance); 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: More stamina = more mana. This is a very good talent and for only 3 points now. The 5 ranking is for felguard locks.
Fel Synergy
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: No longer increases pet armor,stamina, and int but is now in tier 1 so all specs have access to it
and the amount healed has been increased
. With the major nerf to 15% instead of 30% healing 2 points is the way to go. IMO i would rather they move it back up a tier or 2 and put the healing back to 30%. For PvE that was a good enough amount for the FG to live with some healing during raids. Now if your healers ignore him he dies.
Tier 2:
Improved Health Funnel
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: The bonus healing is nice but the 30% damage reduction is the best part. Very good when using the VW or Felguard to solo an elite.
Demonic Brutality
PvP: 1 or 2
PvE(Instance): 1 or 4
PvE(Solo): 3 or 5
Comments: The first rank is for the VW part of the talent. The second rank is for the Felguard component.. For solo work getting the full Demonic frenzy stack is going to be irregular. On long boss fights this talent will boost FG DPS nicely. This talent may be considered a 5 when looking at talents available to get further down the tree from here.
Fel Vitality
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Increases your health and makes pets live longer. Clearly the best talent in this tier
Tier 3:
Improved Succubus
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: If you use the seduction of the Succy a lot in PvE then feel free to increase the rank by 1. For PvP, the ability to basically instant cast seduce is good vs rogues when they cheapshot you. It does NOT make seduce last beyond the 10s cap in PvP.
Soul Link
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Don't skip this talent. It is just good.
Fel Domination
PvP: 2 or 4
PvE(Instance): 1 or 2
PvE(Solo): 1 or 3
Comments: Helps get a pet out faster. PvP switching pets to match opponents in an arena match is very useful. The low ranking is without Master Summoner. Useful in PvE when the pet goes down and you need a new one quick.
Demonic Aegis
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Soul Link is a better talent in this tier for PvP but this is better for PvE. Flat out increases your DPS.
Tier 4:
Unholy Power
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: pure pet DPS increase
Master Summoner
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: See comments under Fel Domination
Tier 5:
Mana Feed
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Very pleased with the changes to mana feed. Now only costs 1 point and is much lower in the tree.
Master Conjuror
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: This talent went from awful to nice real quick with the changing of a decimal place.
For
firestone
: (49*3)= 147 crit rating boost, divided by 45.91 = 3.2% crit boost
For
spell stone
: (60*3) = 180 haste, divided by 32.79 = 5.49% haste boost
Tier 6:
Master Demonologist
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: One of the key talents to making demo builds work. Keep in mind the bonus is for both the lock and the pet.
Molten Core
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Replacing the awful iEnslave demon is, Molten Core? Yes, it seems odd until you get Decimation. And of course demo/destro hybrids will be wanting this talent as well
Tier 7:
Demonic Resilience
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Great for anti-crit talent for PvP. The reduced damage to pet is the key part for PvE work
Demonic Empowerment
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Acts as an anti-CC pet trinket in PvP. For PvE it is a nice DPS pet trinket.
Demonic Knowledge
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: As you stack more stamina your pet gets more stamina and you get more spell power. Works well. Don't skip this talent.
Tier 8:
Demonic Tactics
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Pure damage boost, +10% crit for you and pet. Skipping this talent would be crazy.
Decimation
PvP: 5
PvE(instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: The removal of the 3rd level of decimation is offset by the fact that it can now trigger off the soulfire cast itself simplifying the rotation under 35%
Tier 9:
Improved Demonic Tactics
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: A good talent. Helps keep the pet scaling
Summon Felguard
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Going this far into demo and skipping the best pet in the game? I don't think so. (Ok for some situations the others are better).
Glyph of Felguard
is a big boost to the FG as well, the 10% is to overall AP not base AP.
Nemesis
PvP: 3 or 5
PvE(Instance): 2 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Use the higher rating if you have Metamorphosis
Tier 10:
Demonic Pact
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Fixed, since it now provides the lock a straight 10% DPS boost. The raid buff is just gravy.
Tier 11:
Metamorphosis
PvP: 1 or 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Makes a nice 'Uh-Oh" button when soloing. The 20% DPS increase makes it a good trinket type ability for raiding. PvP: you either love this talent or hate it. If you like it take it otherwise skip it.
Love Points: better armor, reduced stun/snare duration, more anti-crit.
Hate Points:
Banish
,
Turn Evil
,
Holy Wrath
,
Exocism
and finally: can't use it while stunned
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Post by
Blightman
Destruction
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Main focus is high intensity direct damage. Faster casting direct damage and harder hitting. With the new changes good DPS will require better spell weaving to maximize spell interactions. Empowered Imp based specs are tending to give the most DPS.
Raid Pet: Imp
Tier 1:
Improved Shadow Bolt
PvP: 2 or 3
PvE(Instance): 3 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: The iSB roller coaster continues. If SB is your main nuke this is a very good talent. If Incinerate is your main nuke then it is totally optional. The crit debuff is ok, keep in mind it does not stack with iScorch or winter's chill.
Bane
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Do I really need to say anything to sell this talent
Tier 2:
Aftermath
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Another talent that has gone from totally worthless to nice.
Molten Skin
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Taking less damage is good but I'm rather sanguine about the direction blizz is taking to fix locks in PvP. Minor aside here: overall the tact is to increase the amount of damage we can take without dying and add a little more burst. IMO if they think we are to squishy put us in leather armor and give us some talents for mobility and anti-stun.
Cataclysm
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Well this talent got weaker. If you are at least as far as emberstorm then you will probably want to fill in this talent to get past tier 2. It is stronger than molten skin and iSB for emberstorm+ locks in instances.
Tier 3:
Demonic Power
PvP: 1
PvE(Instance); 1 or 5
PvE(Solo): 1 or 5
Comments: If you are going to use an empowered imp build then this is basically required. If you are going for an Imp build grab
Glyph of Imp
as well.
Shadowburn
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Nice finisher.
Ruin
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Another no brainer talent
Tier 4:
Intensity
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: even with pushback changes still a good talent
Destructive Reach
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: increased range and threat reduction combined into one great talent
Improved Searing Pain
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 2
Comments: The high threat component of searing pain makes this a poor talent for PvE unless you want to be a lock tank.
Tier 5:
Backlash
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: One of those perfect package talents that just got better by being so much lower in the tree.
Improved Immolate
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: now is 30% boost to the whole spell. Very nice
Devastation
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Great talent
Tier 6:
Nether Protection
PvP: 2
PvE(Instance): 1
PvE(Solo): 1
Comments: After being brutalized with the nerf bat this talent is just not worth it.
Emberstorm
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: Straight up DPS boost to fire spells and faster incinerates. Destro is now slanted to fire based damage so grab this talent.
Tier 7:
Conflagrate
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: This is a great talent if you get the new
Glyph of Conflagrate
. Being based on you immolate or shadowflame spell means it scales very well.
Soul Leech
PvP: 3 or 1
PvE(Instance): 2 or 5
PvE(Solo): 3 or 1
Comments: Before Fel Armor it is a 3 in PvP and a 3 for soloing after Fel Armor it is weak. If you plan on using the Imp for instance running and getting the Improved Soul Leech then it is a 5.
Pyroclasm
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: At first glance this seems like an awesome talent and it is indeed a much improved from before. The weakness of this talent in PvE is that you get 1 conflagrate every 10s effectively the chance you will have the spell boost is equal to your crit chance. In PvP where you can/do spam searing pain the chance to trigger this will go way up.
Tier 8:
Shadow and Flame
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: At this point in the tree skipping this would be sad.
Improved Soul Leech
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 2
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Overall a so-so talent. The raid mana regen doesn't stack with other mana regen talents like vampiric touch or judgements of the wise so its not great. As for the personal mana regen, with the new
glyph of life tap
you will want to life tap some.
Tier 9:
Backdraft
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 4
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments:
Glyph of Conflagrate
plus this is very nice. Use that 30% haste to throw out a few soul fires and smile
Shadowfury
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 4
Comments: AoE stun with some damage is great in PvP. Limited usefulness in instances(Deathbringer saurfang fight for example). If deciding between this and shadowburn:
Shadowburn has a 42.93% spell power coefficient vs a 19.23% for shadowfury
Shadowburn requires a reagent
Shadowfury is aoe
Empowered Imp
PvP: 3
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: If you get this talent, and you should, don't skip, Demonic Power, or Improved Imp. Don't try testing this on a dummy. In a raid your imp's crit chance can easily be be boosted over 15% causing this to proc a lot more in a raid. In some regards it is like letting you double dip on raid crit bonuses, And what destro lock doesn't want more crit?
Tier 10:
Fire and Brimstone
PvP: 5
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 5
Comments: Some good changes to this, namely the damage bonus to incinerate and CB are for any time immolate is up. Add in the 25% crit bonus to conflag and we have a good talent
Tier 11:
Chaos Bolt
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 5
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Still luke warm about CB. The fast cast time and relatively hard hit make it a good spell in PvE rotations. They are removing the piercing aspect of it making but I doubt they will modify it in any other fashion to compensate. IMO: it should a random 3s debuff to the target.
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Blightman
Specs
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For more builds, check irharry's
raid build sticky
.
One of the nice things about WotlK is that the number of viable raid builds has increased.
Currently Blizzard is working to make sure that all 3 trees stay raid viable. If all top raiders take are taking spec X expect to see changes from Blizzard to make specing Y and Z in the other trees more attractive. That is NOT saying that all 3 trees will have equal DPS. For example, expect demo to lag a bit on DPS as a corollary to their higher survivability.
When picking your spec think of a few things:
Do I like playing my lock this way - very important. I personally prefer Demo and use it
Will it increase my potential DPS - Having more DPS than other people in you raid is a side effect of you maximizing your DPS potential. It is possible to out DPS your raids and still not be doing as much DPS as you could
Does it work with my group - certain spells, pets and talents may drop your personal DPS some but the increased chance of success using them brings makes up for it. Simplest example: CoE
Does it work with my gear - some specs require better gear to perform
PvE(instance) specs are built for BOSS fights. Trash fights are secondary.
PvE(Instance):
Affliction:
Even with the changes affliction is still going to bring the most DPS. The margin is much smaller now. This is consistent with blizz's "policy" of matching potential DPS to skill required to produce it.
Sounded great at the time. Now blizz has backtracked and top DPS spec is destro(fire mage) again just like it was at the end of tBC. Affliction is still competitive in raids: 3rd in T7 gear and 2nd in T8 gear
And now they are top (theoretical) DPS again by a small margin.
55/0/16 Haunt/Ruin
Initial cast order should be, for affliction:
SB -> Haunt -> UA -> CoA -> Corr
(SB spam and refresh time)
If you are on CoE or CoW duty, Initial cast order should be, for affliction:
CoE/W -> SB -> Haunt -> UA -> Corr
(SB spam and refresh time)
Once enemy health drops below 25% drop SB and use
Drain Soul
.
The 4x damage of Drain Soul for the last 25% far outperforms SB.
Demonology:
The red headed step child of raid trees has now very popular in WotlK. It is the least gear dependent and easiest raid spec out. Still has the weakness of massive DPS drop if pet dies
but several changes have made that less common, most notably Fel Synergy
. It is also the lowest theoretical DPS spec
0/56/15 Meta
- meta with no dark pact is good for heroics and raiding at all levels.
0/41/30 FG/Ember
- the bumps to motlen core and dark pact make this a less than desirable spec.
Initial cast order should be:
send FG -> pop damage trinket -> metamorph -> CoD -> Corr -> Immo -> SB spam
Below 35% switch from SB to Soulfire.
Destruction:
Destro is now heavily slanted to fire damage.
0/13/58 Chaos/Imp
- top raid spec if geared.
Oddly enough now CoD is the preferred damage curse for destro locks since MC was moved.
Basic rotation is:
CoD -> Corr -> Immo ->conflg - CB -> Incen spam
Use Conflagrate and CB whenever CD is up. Soul fires can be thrown in when backdraft is up. Generally Corr is not worth reapplying. It is only useful to apply it at the start and during any movement phases.
PvP
Not sure yet if I will post a PvP arena vs non-arena PvP specs.
ALL PvP specs should have
these
talents.
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Blightman
reserved
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Post by
142156
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
please feel free to take whatever aspects of my post you need blightman - mine was simply to try and consolidate topics a wee bit.
Post by
Fnuget
So this is just an copy of 3.0.3? And 3.1 come later, have i understood it right?
Post by
Blightman
please feel free to take whatever aspects of my post you need blightman - mine was simply to try and consolidate topics a wee bit.
Thanks irharry. I look forward to your feedback as I fill this in.
Post by
201988
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Blightman
Ok, looking for feedback and sticky requests :)
Most especially looking for feedback on:
typos
bad links
bad info
Post by
Kangi
Tier 11:
Chaos Bolt
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Underwhelming is what I think when I see this talent. Yes it does add damage and yes it is fun to hit a rogue using CloS with it but the long cast and fairly long CD make it kind of bleh.
I'd give it a higher rating than that for instances. It's faster (with
Bane
) than the other destruction nuke,
Incinerate
, and clearly stronger (though, yes, it has a cooldown).
Also, seems that the latest 3.1 build buffed its damage further:
Warlock Changes
Destruction
Chaos Bolt
- All ranks saw a damage increase, max rank is 1429 to 1813, up from 1243 to 1577.
Post by
Blightman
Tier 11:
Chaos Bolt
PvP: 4
PvE(Instance): 3
PvE(Solo): 3
Comments: Underwhelming is what I think when I see this talent. Yes it does add damage and yes it is fun to hit a rogue using CloS with it but the long cast and fairly long CD make it kind of bleh.
I'd give it a higher rating than that for instances. It's faster (with
Bane
) than the other destruction nuke,
Incinerate
, and clearly stronger (though, yes, it has a cooldown).
Ok, I updated the link to point to ptr wowhead which shows the higher damage.
Yes it does hit harder than Incinerate, for 51points it should. I did update it to a 4 since it is a slight DPS gain. The DPS difference between a Backdraft/MD build and a CB build is roughly 30 in T8 gear. Some
ej simcrafting
(thanks irharry for the link). The bleh is because for 51pts I would expect a bit more.
Still better than the DPS drop meta brings to the PvE table.
Post by
178407
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
irharry
You put so much work into these Blightman! My patience with formatting runs thin im afraid :P
A few comments on your 3.1 specs,
I'm not sure if you want to stress the 0/40/31 build a little more. I hate to be the one singling out any spec above others (I'm strongly against that), but its actually a damned good spec, arguably the best available. Its dmg can be very bursty too (with high end gear it
will
blast 20K+ conflags, with top end gear, up to 25K!), so its fine for heroics.
Aff still has the highest poential dps, but it now requires a doomguard to do that. Pre 3.1.0 a good aff lock could beat anything else even without a doomguard (allbeit not as easy to do as it is to type it!), post 3.1.0 it REQUIRES a doomguard to compete with the hybrids.
You should never take glyph of imp for PVE dps. Any demo/desto spec using an imp will have conflag, so the glyphs are automatically immo/conflag+1. The +1 should be either incinerate or life tap, depending on the build. Any aff build will have Haunt, agony, and life tap.
I'm still desperately hoping that they finally fix the fel armor spirit bug (any +dmg that spirit contributes to fel armour is not recognised by Demonic pact), but until they do the threshold at which demonic pact outscales ToWr is roughly 200 spellpower higher. Also mention that unless you have a retardin in the raid, Demonic pact is almost always a bad thing. When demonic pact pat overwrites ToWr it removes the 3% crit that ToWr gives, and unless you have a ret pally to put it on seperately, its a dps loss despite the spell power gain.
It also looks like we disagree quite strongly on scaling. I personally don't believe that any spec scales better with gear anylonger. Pre wrath some specs (yes im looking at 21/40!) scaled better than others, but all trees now have some buffs that scale with gear. They're not identical of course, but until someone shows me some very solid math to prove otherwise, I really don't think that gear levels affect the relative performance of specs. lots of haste makes the pre 3.1 aff builds easier, but not better - thats about all I can think of.
Is it worth adding a piece on Soulfire weaving? Pre load your decimate procs to balance the fact the the buff is applied on hit rather than on cast. Simple once you know it, but it took me a while to get my head around it :P
Post by
260426
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Blightman
You should never take glyph of imp for PVE dps. Any demo/desto spec using an imp will have conflag, so the glyphs are automatically immo/conflag+1. The +1 should be either incinerate or life tap, depending on the build. Any aff build will have Haunt, agony, and life tap.
Right and updated, cut & paste can be friend or foe :)
I'm not sure if you want to stress the 0/40/31 build a little more. I hate to be the one singling out any spec above others (I'm strongly against that), but its actually a damned good spec, arguably the best available. Its dmg can be very bursty too (with high end gear it
will
blast 20K+ conflags, with top end gear, up to 25K!), so its fine for heroics.
0/40/31 does do great DPS. My dislike of it is subjective not objective, essentially blizz has made a frankenstein build one of our best. Essentially 40/31 is a destro build in disguise.
Aff still has the highest poential dps, but it now requires a doomguard to do that. Pre 3.1.0 a good aff lock could beat anything else even without a doomguard (allbeit not as easy to do as it is to type it!), post 3.1.0 it REQUIRES a doomguard to compete with the hybrids.
Yes affliction has changed. I think what we will see in practice(not simcraft) is that affliction will still be top dog by a very slim margin with out considering the DG. The ability to keep close to max DPS output through movement or silence phases of fights will be a factor in "real" fights
I'm still desperately hoping that they finally fix the fel armor spirit bug (any +dmg that spirit contributes to fel armour is not recognised by Demonic pact), but until they do the threshold at which demonic pact outscales ToWr is roughly 200 spellpower higher. Also mention that unless you have a retardin in the raid, Demonic pact is almost always a bad thing. When demonic pact pat overwrites ToWr it removes the 3% crit that ToWr gives, and unless you have a ret pally to put it on seperately, its a dps loss despite the spell power gain.
Like I said, napkin math puts the DPact> totmwrth at about 3k. If you want to fill this in with real math i will happily include. I agree the DPact is not a great talent, why I only give it a 3 in best case.
It also looks like we disagree quite strongly on scaling. I personally don't believe that any spec scales better with gear anylonger. Pre wrath some specs (yes im looking at 21/40!) scaled better than others, but all trees now have some buffs that scale with gear. They're not identical of course, but until someone shows me some very solid math to prove otherwise, I really don't think that gear levels affect the relative performance of specs. lots of haste makes the pre 3.1 aff builds easier, but not better - thats about all I can think of.
The only builds that i think will really excel in the scaling dept are the ones with conflag since they sort of double dip right now.
Is it worth adding a piece on Soulfire weaving? Pre load your decimate procs to balance the fact the the buff is applied on hit rather than on cast. Simple once you know it, but it took me a while to get my head around it :P
probably worth adding
Post by
irharry
When demonic pact pat overwrites ToWr it removes the 3% crit that ToWr gives, and unless you have a ret pally to put it on seperately, its a dps loss despite the spell power gain.
Wrong!
:p
The ToWr gives a critdebuff on the target, not a buff :) It only owerwrites the spelldmg.. not the crit :)
So there is no downside not having a retri in raid :)
Are you completely sure? I'm virtually certain that when demonic pact overides ToWr it cancles the ToWr effect entirely - and doesnt really care that the other part is a debuff rather than a buff. I'd love to be wrong! :P (I'll test this when i get home from work)
Post by
301313
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