Comments

Comment by 223511

it does sadden me that blizzard devs don't realize that DK's dont get much use out of haste.

Comment by 189169

the fact that a large amount of their spells and abilities are instant cast

Wouldn't that make haste less useful considering Instant cast spells get no benefit from haste?

Unfortunately, haste isn't terribly useful for a Death Knight. Haste only serves to increase the auto-attack/white damage a DK does, and considering most of a DKs damage comes from his instant cast Strikes and Spells, means it isn't terribly beneficial.

Haste may benefit a Dual Wielding DK however, since they would then be concentrating more on white damage as opposed to specials. That fits mainly for the Frost tree, with talents like Nerves of Cold Steel and the Icy Talons line benefiting dual wielding.

Comment by 78894

Thats quite false.

You dont refresh your runes any faster.

In unholy presence you can burn your runes in 5 seconds and wait the other 5, while in blood presence you burn your runes in 7.5 seconds and wait 2.5 second.

You still have to wait 10 seconds. You still do the same amount of attacks per second.
That only increases when you cant complete a rotation in 10 seconds. Which is pretty much only the case with deep blood builds.

Comment by AMIB

Back when this was haste rating, I said this:

Haste does not affect Death Knight special attacks or the DK global cooldown. As Death Knights get the bulk of their damage from special attacks and not autoattacks (known as "white damage"), haste is a poor stat for them.

In this case, this procced haste is so weak that a death knight in a PVE role, regardless of spec or what that role consists of, will see a greater DPS gain from the starter area sigil over this exceptionally poorly itemized Sigil.

I don't know enough about DK PVP to comment on the utility of this sigil in PVP; I suspect that its value is as low in that context as in PVE.

There is no reason to have this sigil unless you accidentally vendored your starter area sigil and needed to fill the empty slot.]

3.0.8 turned this haste rating into crit rating, but also added significant competition in the form of the Venture Coin sigils, particularly Sigil of the Frozen Conscience. Now, 2h frost DKs and dual-wielding DKs of all stripes are built around Icy Touch-spamming rotations, gaining a great deal from Frozen Conscience. For those specs that aren't spamming Icy Touch, they simply don't spread out their Blood/Heart Strikes enough or gain enough from crit to justify this sigil over the starter area sigil, let alone Heigan's relatively easy-to-get sigil.

Napkin math on Elitistjerks puts the uptime of this sigil at 5%. Due to poor uptime and a poorly-chosen trigger, this sigil is still an exceptionally poor choice for any PVE DK.

post-4.0.3a/Cataclysm release edit - Ever since the 4.0 revamp to relic-slot items, this is now a perfectly reasonable choice for any frost or unholy DK. However, as it's the weakest of the DK relics sold by the now-obsolete level 80 Justice Point vendor, I suspect few players will pick this up.

Comment by zinistr

wrong. 20% of dmg is of white dmg. I dont exactly have my wow web stats link but last time i checked it out, at least 20-25% of my dmg was from auto attacks. Auto attacks comprise more for frost spec as well.

I cant decide if i want this trinket it not but i broke it down to this.

Either +dmg on blood strike (im unholy) or more speed for necrosis & blood caked, also with Mirror of Truth you can get at least 2 or 1 extra hit on or something like that.

Alot of Naxxramas loot for plate have haste stat on them, might as well pick it up to help them stack.

This is obviously from a pve standpoint but it is better than the original sigil. If youre blood, then you have a pretty hard predicament

Comment by 62852

While I agree that there could have been better itemized Relic's out there for DK's, especially because of the depressing lack of them at all..

This item is amazing for a Dual-wielding Death Knights. As the only dual wield spec that I've seen is a tri-spec using on attack procs in all 3 trees to compensate for the lower strike damage of a one hander, this is actually pretty good stuff.

Mind you, I haven't seen this tri-spec in action in a raid setting, nor have I sat down and done the numbers on it, so it very well might be no good to begin with...

But this Relic, at least, is pretty amazing for a spec that works off of "on hit" procs.

Comment by hntd

Debate on the usefulness of haste for Death Knights aside this trinket has a 15% chance to proc as denoted by the spell effect in wowhead. Link This also will provide to you 5.27% haste to your melee attacks, which if you ask me is very nice. Allow me to clarify, since I'm being downrated. When it procs it will give you 5.27% haste to melee attacks, it doesn't provide that effect constantly.

Comment by ZeroXposur

All i can see is benefit from this particular sigil. Bottom line is this, you can either pop up Blood aura, allowing for the additional 15% damage, or you can use Unholy, for the 15% haste. Using the Unholy, Yes, you'll be able to put your runes on CD faster, but they still take JUST AS LONG. This is what I have noticed in playing, please tell me if I am wrong. I personally would rather do more sustained DPS over the length of a fight, rather than a quick burst here and there. For me, the extra 5.27% haste seems to increase overall DPS for an extended period of time. I am still able to throw down my Plague Strike, Icy Touch and Death Strike, then move on to Heart Strike while my Unholy/Frost cool down. When this procs, I am cranking out slightly faster Melee hits, therefore giving me the benefits of both Blood and Unholy Presences. Burst damage makes much more sense in PvP, when you get out there, and find that Healing Priest, you can quickly burn them down, and take care of the remaining targets at your leisure. In PvE, especially boss fights, I think most people would agree that putting yourself on top of the damage meters for those 2-3 seconds is not worth the sacrifice of doing more damage for the duration of that 5 minute fight.

To comment on AMIB "As Death Knights get the bulk of their damage from special attacks and not autoattacks (known as "white damage"), haste is a poor stat for them." Using recount, it clearly shows that YES, overall for ALL of my special attacks, I am doing more damage, but my White Damage generally accounts for over 33% of my total. I agree with the idea that most of our damage is put out in Specials, but I must disagree with the idea that Haste is a poor stat. Since I have started increasing the Haste that I have in my gear, I have seen the % of white damage done increase by 4-5%, now allowing for it to account for the new 33% that I have. If we look at how this affects us as we move forward, White Damage, with the proper amount of Haste, may eventually account for nearly half of our total damage. Time will tell

Comment by 155455

I tested both the starting sigil and this one in both blood and unholy presences for about 5 minutes each. I am Unholy/blood.

I found in blood presence this sigil seems to be slightly less dps then the starting sigil, but only by about 20dps. White damage was about 25% of damage.

In Unholy presence this sigil did more damage then the starting one by about 60dps. White damage was about 20%

For both presences/sigils I found white dps to be higher then everything else, and blood strike second.

Anyone thinking about getting this sigil I would recommend turning away from it.

Keep in mind this was only about 5mins each trial so I am going to do some more testing.

Comment by Broloth

what you're all failing to realize is that haste is good for a dk for the fact that our auto attacks proc stuff, I.E. blood caked blade and killing machine, this is more a sigil for triple d's (dw dps dks).

Comment by wtfletigre

Information not currently up to date

Let me clear up a few misconceptions.

Haste Rating will directly increase the contribution of white swings to your DPS - 1% Haste will generate 1% more auto attack DPS.

Unlike many other melee based classes, Death Knights draw a much smaller portion of their dps from White damage. As a result, Haste is a much less desirable stat. As you can also see, the value of Haste is effected by the spec. Abilities like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade allow for Unholy specs to gain much better damage per Haste Rating. Additionally, Killing machine works similarly.

While Haste is never a particularly desirable stat for Death Knights, we must remember how it effects their GCD. Because of dense rotations additional haste rating can reduce the strain on a player and allow for a larger margin of error. However, stacking too much of it is also not recommended, due to its low value.

We require 32.79 Rating for 1% Haste.

information taken from http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t36303-dps_compendium/

Comment by IceBox

According to MMOChampion.com this will be changed to:
Sigil of Haunted Dreams now gives Your Blood Strike and Heart Strikes a chance to grant 173 critical strike rating for 10 sec

Comment by 148091

173 Critical Strike rating will translate to roughly 3.76% added crit chance.

Comment by 62247

Of course the Sigil of Awareness from 25 man Naxx should be a little better, but it will still completely and utterly dominate this Sigil even with the change to crit. 420 to Oblit and Scourge Strike is phenomenal, and unfortunately a 15% chance to get 4% crit chance for 10 seconds is still pretty crappy for an item that should only be a few iLevels below it.

If I were you, I would just buy the new Sigil from Venture Coins that gives damage to Icy Touch and wait for the Naxx25 one. Unless you're bleeding badges, I would still say this isn't worth it. And even if you were, I'd still take the icy touch one :P

Comment by skooby

Ok enough of the single mindedness about the usefulness of haste to a DK. Many of you may have tried different specs, as I would hope you have before you post what stats are good for a DK. Frost DK's duel wielding benefit greatly from haste due to Killing Machines proc. With decent crit rating and fighting in Unholy Presence a death knight could very well get free crits with IT, Frost Strike or HB every few seconds. Not to mention as far as the PTR test realm is showing Blizz has dropped the cool down on HB, thus even more AOE crit dmg.

But not just Frost, Unholy can benefit from the haste as well with Blood-caked, or Necrosis as increased white dps. It really all depends on the playstyle, and rotation the player decides to use. Maybe Blood Specced DK's benefit more from the starting sigil due to Blood/Heart Strikes being a huge source of dps. But that does not that there is not a single use for haste on a DK. Even increased white dps is still increased dps.

*edit - I would honestly think that the haste rating would make this a great Frost tanking trinket due to the proc talents in the tree. Crit would be nice, but not a huge difference for it. So you get a little more of a chance to crit some attacks, I would rather have the proc that gives me a 100% chance to crit with my next special ability.

Comment by Slavac

whats the PPM for this item? or can it refresh the proc.

i already know proc chance is 15%, and thats not what im asking

Comment by skooby

again, this is useless to a blood death knight period. As much as they use blood strike and heart strike in rotation the starting sigil is better. However, even if you think it has a horrid uptime, having the haste proc is more white dmg, necrosis, etc during the effect vs the extra dmg for blood strike. I parked a dummy in ebon hold for 20 minutes with this trinket, then another 20 with the starting trinket and had well over 200 dps difference in favor of the sigil of haunted dreams. It increased my melee dps considerably, and in turn BCB, and Necrosis. Until you raid 25 naxx, or unless you get into arena for the Sigil of Strife, this is the better of the two choices for frost or unholy. Rotation and talent points make the difference between the two... but for my build which is dominantly unholy this sigil is higher dps overall. Besides I see you put that your first strike giving horrid upkeep if it procs, how does that make sense? If you are in a sustained fight then you want that to proc as much as possible so the first attack proccing would be the best time. Therefore allowing more procs in the duration of the fight.

edit- btw if you put points into epidemic as unholy and you are on a single target boss you are allowed 4 bloodstrikes per rotation. Not 2. With that said you have a chance of this proccing once every minute according to percentages. Also I would add that no I would not prefer this over the 25man Naxx or the Arena trinkets, but if you do neither of those for the time being it works. Not only that but its much easier to obtain this one than 25man Naxx where you have loot table percentages, or Arena where it takes a skilled team to obtain the rating required for that sigil.

Comment by 195710

With the upcoming patch the epic sigil will get a very nice change!

Posted from mmo-champion.com:

Sigil of Haunted Dreams now gives Your Blood Strike and Heart Strikes a chance to grant 173 critical strike rating for 10 sec. (Old - Haste Rating)

What do think now over this buyable epic sigil?

;)

With best regards

Comment by 288466

It now grants crit rating instead of haste, making it actually worth emblems.

Comment by TheRazielim

Just based on my initial working with it, still not worth the effort. Proc rate on it is abyssmal, but I'll have to run with it a bit longer. Couple Heroics and Patchwerk spent staring at my buff bar, I really don't see it go off enough to be worth it. Take it at face value though since I'm basing this entirely off personal perception, no WWS or anything backing it. But just based on looking at it myself, I don't see the buff on me often enough to consider it exceptionally useful. But still better than nothing if you're waitng for the one from Heigan.

Edit:

Ok so after last night's Naxx25 run (full clear, start to finish), I'd still say it's not active enough to really be useful. Of a total 523 Heart Strikes for the night, the Sigil only activated 78 times, according to the WWS report for the night. That really isn't alot, especially only for 3.77% crit for 10sec. Obviously our WWS logs could be off/skewed in some way, but I'm not too concerned with the exact numbers. I'll have to look at a few more raid nights to check it out but I stand by my original assessment that the uptime on this is absolutely disgusting.

Comment by rodalpho

This sigil is a 15% procrate on blood/heartstrike of 173 crit rating (3.78% crit) with a 10s duration. Unholy and frost builds use bloodstrike once or twice per 20s cycle to create death runes. Lets be generous and say that U/F builds use 6 bloodstrikes per minute, that's a 90% chance of 10s of 3.78% crit per minute. So for unholy and frost builds, this sigil can be thought of as 0.57% static crit. For blood builds, it's more like 1.7% crit if you assume it never refreshes itself. Realistically, probably more like 1.3%.

Compare to
sigil of dark rider that you got at level 55 = 9dps for unholy or frost builds, around 27 for blood (discounting crit)
sigil of arthritic binding = 41dps for unholy (also discounting crit)
sigil of the frozen conscience = 20dps assuming two icy touches per cycle, more for DW IT spam builds (also discounts crit)

Basically nobody should use this sigil under any circumstances.

Comment by farble1670

this is just a terrible sigil. 15% chance to add less than 4% crit chance? and it's 15% chance on a rune-limited ability, not even every hit, or every melee hit.

you are better off with the starter sigil that adds a constants weapon damage on every hit.

Comment by 309298

I see people use this over sigil of arthritic binding, i think because it's purple or something.

I will stick with my sigil of arthritic binding for now.

Comment by 223121

Sad that Blizzard makes items like this. How can this possible be hitting the item budget for an iLevel 200 sigil?

Looking at it now in Dalaran and the only thing that's making me want to buy it is the achievements I'm missing for item levels equipped :P

Comment by farble1670

this is rated the worst sigil in the game. a *chance* to gain around 3.7% crit for 10 seconds? the starter sigil is rated significantly higher than this one. keep your badges.

Comment by Blaad

It is a FANTASTIC stat for DK tanks.

Yes, because there is nothing more fantastic for the tank than being parry-gibed. That's why all tanks should stack haste... oh wait.

Comment by 245396

Other sites (I will only name them if allowed) states that this sigil only adds 9.88 to DPS compared with the initial Sigil of the Dark Rider that adds 30.68. Now why would any DPS DK choose this sigil instead of the initial one? Is my source way off or are the sigils not very well balanced?

I only count two out of eight sigils that actually should add more to DPS. Is this really true?

Comment by unitedideas

Wow, Why would Blizz leave Frost Strike out of this sigil? Really... C'mon!, Geez Blizz maybe I like Frost DPS and Not Frost Tanking? (All though I really do like Frost tanking too.)

Comment by 231954

Is it only me that find it slightly odd with that it says "Classes: Death Knight" when death knights are the only ones who can wear sigils?

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Sigil of Haunted Dreams

Item Level 200
Binds when picked up
Unique-Equipped

Relic

+28 Strength
+42 Stamina

Prismatic Socket

Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 19.
Equip: Improves hit rating by 19.

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This item can be purchased in Dalaran (3).

Sigil of Haunted Dreams

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