PLEASE remove [School of Hard Knocks] requirement from the Children's Week meta-achievemen

Post by Lucilite

I would like to start a petition to have Blizzard remove what may be the hardest Holiday achievement to get, from being a requirement for the much sought after Meta-achievement.
But since I don't have the slightest clue how to start a petetion, I'm going to make this post a plea to the developers. (If anyone else wants to start an actual petition & knows how, please do so. I will sign it.)

Dear Blizzard,

Children's Week for 2012 is just a couple days away from starting. My main, who has been working VERY hard for several years to get What A Long, Strange Trip It's been, already has all the requirements for Children's Week done, except for School of Hard Knocks.
I just went to that page hoping to find some guides for how to get the achievement, but what I saw was a resounding chorus of people complaining about how hard this achievement is to get, and why it's a very bad idea in it's own right. And these are totally legitimate complaints.
If you go to the School of Hard Knocks page and read the first full page of comments, you will see several things mentioned repeatedly, such as:

This achievement forces players who have not skill nor experience nor gear nor any enjoyment of PvP to suddenly play lots & lots & lots of BGs, because they want their Violet Proto-Drake.
Some players have been playing for many years, working hard for that Proto-Drake, and long ago completed every achievement required for it except this one, and so they have to wait another year for a chance to overcome this one obstacle... and then another year... etc.
The specific tasks required for this achievement can be VERY difficult, especially for players who don't normally focus on PvP, and often getting them done is simply a matter of blind luck. With a crowd of players surrounding the flag in EotS or the flag-carrier in WSG all fervently right-clicking on the flag, which it's only possible for one character to pick up at a time, there's no real way to ensure that everyone who's trying gets a chance.
(Personally I've been in WSG many many times over several years and I have not managed to return a fallen flag ONCE yet. Now I have to hope I finally get this task done for the first time, in this specific week, or else I must wait another whole year & try again.)
This ruins the PvP side of the game for a whole week. Not just for those who specialize in it, but also for those who'd rather avoid it. For the PvP players, they suddenly find 4 of most popular BGs flooded with n00bs who are only there for the holiday achievement and do not contribute at all to winning the BG, and this sets back peoples' progress in farming honor/conquest points through wins. And for the PvE players, we find ourselves up against players who are far better geared and skilled, & who are ready to slaughter us the second we come into view. And I doubt that anyone enjoys losing over & over & over while gaining nothing they want in a place they don't even want to be.
It turns the whole concept of battlegrounds on its head. Stories of people successfully getting the achievement usually involve at least one BG where the enemy side recognized when players were there specifically for the holiday, and very kindly let them get their part of the achievement done (such as Hordies deliberately letting Allies in to a base in AB and cheering them on while the Allies assaulted the flag). Thus taking a place designed for the 2 factions to fight against each other, and instead using it for the factions to work together for each others' benefit. For 1 week every year it makes PvP-centric zones be non-PvP.
Meanwhile, players on the same side suddenly have to compete with each other for the same goal, such as getting to an enemy tower in AV before other players, or picking up a fallen flag in WSG before others who are trying to do the same thing at the same time. Some even get desparate enough to resort to tactics such as a paladin bubbling a teammate who's carrying the flag in EotS so they can "steal" the flag from them.
It makes enemies cooperate in a place they're meant to fight against each other, and it makes allies fight against each other in a place they're meant to cooperate. This is NOT what BGs are about.

I read that School of Hard Knocks may have been designed with the intention of encouraging people who usually ignore PvP to try it out more, so they can experience more aspects of the game, and because they might find that they like PvP once they've tried it. (A classic "Green Eggs & Ham" scenario.) If this is the case, then it was a massive failure, because for people who are totally unprepared for PvP, the frustration involved only makes BGs less appealing, thus pushing them further away from the notion of PvP gaming.

Seriously, Blizzard, listen to your customers. This achievement does not belong in the list of requirements for What A Long, Strange Trip It's been. It's a square peg shoved into a round hole. If anything, it should be part of the general PVP Achievements set, not part of the Children's Week meta set.
Now, I know it's not the only holiday achievement that requires doing PvP; With a Little Help from My Friends is also required for the meta. But at least that one could be done in any random BG and thus didn't require potentially wasting lots of game time waiting in very long queues for specific BGs (another common complaint I've heard from we the people), and it only required getting honor-kills which can and IS done cooperatively, and isn't often counterproductive to winning the BGs.

If you changed the achievement so that it merely required us to WIN specified BGs while having your orphan out, then we would be much better off. The goal would be challenging yet achievable, while encouraging both n00bs and veterans alike to work together for the goal of winning... and that would also give "carebears" a taste of what the BGs are actually like, rather than experiencing the mirror-universe versions.

Please, Blizzard, spare us from this Hard Knock Life. Even PvE specialists want to earn their own Violet Proto-Drake.

Post by Sas148

This would be better suited on the official World of Warcraft forums. The developers do not read the Wowhead forums.

With that being said, I will state that I don't PvP very much and still had no problem getting this achievement the first year...

Post by Dragalthor

This is a fan site and not the official forums and as such Blizzard employees do not check these boards. You'd be much better off making this thread on the official forums where it will get read.

This thread is also against the forum rules

Specifically; You stand a good chance of having your thread locked if it is a rant or direct address to Blizzard. Post those on the official World of Warcraft forums instead. We also ask you think twice before ranting in general--it doesn't foster productive discussion.

Post by 836112

This post was from a user who has deleted their account.

Post by asakawa

Blizzard employees have been known to look at our forum but a letter to Blizzard like this is still far more suited to the official forum if the aim is to have your request heard.

Threads on this forum should be about discussion with other players and fans of the game not about trying to get something changed directly and as such I'd like people to maybe assume that the OP's post doesn't say "Dear Blizzard" but instead starts with:
"Dear Wowhead community, I'd like your opinion on the following..."
That way I can leave the thread open and there's some potential for a good discussion.

Thanks.(##RESPBREAK##)16##DELIM##asakawa##DELIM##

Post by Snownation

Oh I remember this part.
I was so annoyed at these achievements when I did them.

Everyone and I mean everyone grabbed their orphan and rushed to the FC in hopes to get to click the dropped flag. It completely disrupted normal PvP play for actual PvPer's.

Nevertheless, it's not too hard to complete, just need some patience.

Post by Patty

I've done it on two characters with minimal PvP gear, in one instance with none at all. Seriously, it's a pretty damned easy achievement. The main problem with it is that everyone else is after the achievement too, not so much about PvP skill.

Post by 883244

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Post by CalaelenDT

Captain's Log, earthdate 2012: It's been four years since the initial Children's Week, yet the eyes of the Azerothians swell with tears once more, as the hardest boss ever has once again set foot upon the soils of Azeroth.

Each year the Horde and Alliance forces join arms to combat this annual horror that plagues our beloved world. With arguments as sharp as a pillow they bravely try to persuade Blizzard to remove that pesky achievement that prevents them from completing the meta in 5 minutes.

We have faced all sorts of destructive powers in our voyages, yet they all pale in comparison to visiting a WoW Forum during Children's Week.

Post by 662029

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Post by 304981

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Post by Porcell

For some reason I don't think people are really putting in the effort to do this achievement. I did this achievement the first time it was available and don't remember having problems with it. It's probably less time consuming than running all over Azeroth clicking fires or finding Elders.

But really, it's an achievement. Every achievement doesn't have to be face-on-keyboard easy to obtain. Get a group of 5 people together and go to the achievement. I think the "hardest" one was AV, it took several attempts to get to a tower first.

Post by Strand

I did this achievement as a rogue with an orphan following me around.... while stealthed. It's really not that hard, you just have to invest a little time and maybe some guild partners.

Post by ScottCom

You don't PvP? What do you do when you hit 85 then? Not like Raiding is any challenge anymore... heh.

Post by 806701

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Post by TheReal

snip

Precisely. Achievements like Going Down? have given players a sense of entitlement. This achievement is difficult, as achievements should be. Still can't get it? Play better.

Post by Rystrave

I'd have to agree with everyone here. So what if the achievement is harder to get than most. They can't hand out everything. If everything was as easy to get as we want them to be, nothing would be special.

I hope they don't change it. This is also my last meta to get the achievement (stopped PVPing on my warrior a long time ago), but I know if I don't get it this year that I'll just have to do it again next year.

Post by 877949

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Post by 135522

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Post by archmiffo

Ok, I dont really see the issue on this one.
Its not hard to do. The only problem with it really is the fact that everyone is trying at the same time, and therefore you have competition.
I'm not a PVP'er in any way, sort or form. I try to avoid PVP whenever I can. I'm bad at it simply put. I loose 90% of the time, and the times I do win is because of freak accidents, like my opponent happen to step of a cliff and drop down on razorsharp stones 100ft below, and even then its not certain I will win.

I did this achievement the first year, and found no direct problem in doing it. Yes, it took some work, and yes I had to queue up quite a few times, but if its given freely its not really an achievement either now, is it?

PLEASE remove [School of Hard Knocks] requirement from the Children's Week meta-achievemen

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