lmaoMake druids even more uselessForce/savage is the only thing druids have had for a year. Don't blame the combo, blame Blizzard for making garbage cards that don't do anything. They have been trying to push 'beast druid', but did nothing but introduce garbage arena-esque cards that don't do anything.Druid of the Fang? Who cares about a 7/7, it's nothing but a giant body. Robo-cub (not even a beast)? A garbage 2/3 or 3/2 that does nothing when it's played and is just a bodyDruid of the Flame? A garbage 5/2 or 2/5 that does nothing when it's played and is just a bodyDruid of the Saber? A garbage 3/2 that does nothing when it's played and is just a bodyMounted Raptor? A bad Piloted ShredderWildwalker? A less costed, more specific Templar Enforcer. Look how much that card is played.Grove Tender? TopkekJungle Moonkin? An overcosted beast that helps your opponent? TopkekKnight of the Wild? 'Accelerated' big body, see Volcanic Drake and how much that is playedMech-Bear-Cat? Not a beast, just a big body. Spare parts have no synergy in a druid deck anywaysVolcanic Lumberer? See Knight of the WildMalorne? Just another big bodyThe spells are all a joke too. Mulch is worthless removal, Astral Communion is a huge joke, Recycle is worse Entomb by a long shot, Dark Whispers is mediocre, not enough to be in a deck, and Tree of Life is also a joke used only in !@#$ty mill decks.No deck defining cards, no tempo or efficiency cards, just garbage minions. The biggest changes in a druid deck has been Darnassus Aspirant and MAYBE Raven Idol. No other class has gotten nothing but garbage in each expansion.
A lot of those cards you mention are actually pretty decent cards. The complaint that cards "do nothing when they're played" seems like you're hating on all minions that don't have battlecry. That's most of the minions in the game! Some of the minions you lump in with that have stealth or taunt, or even charge, which definitely changes their functionality beyond being just a body.Other complaints seem to ignore the mana cost that goes with them. A 7/7 for 5 mana is pretty good if you can pull it off!The fact that a lot of these cards give you the choice on how to distribute the stats depending on the situation is another advantage that shouldn't be dismissed so lightly.The discounting mechanism for Knight of the Wild is completely different to Volcanic Drake. The latter needs the discounting effect to happen in the turn it's played. Knight of the WIld can be getting permanently discounted more and more for as long as it remains in your hand while you play beasts. It's not hard to get insane value from it in a beast deck. Maybe there still aren't quite enough good beasts to bring the quality of a beast deck on par with the more established decks but I don't think there's any problem with the individual cards.
Yes, let's nerf class which has 4 unplayable removal spell, and not really a good AoE, but has one playable combo for 9 manna.Combo is not as strong as it seems, is now a meta based on aggro and over half the deck is simply dont have a taunt, which by the way can save face as well as Loatheb. May need nerf Thaurissan, in fact it makes the combo so strong?
Just delete text "charge" from the game, that's what you want?Pls, stop complain about combo decks, we need such decks in meta. Health meta consist from all kind of decks, not just control or aggro.This game have one true combodeck 'patron' than it was destroyed. We have kind of combo freeze, and combo druid who still need presence on the board.And resolve charge minion problems is simple, add neutral legendary Muradin Bronzebeard 5 mana 5-5 stats and text "minions can't charge", or can't charge next turn, like Loatheb effect.Sorry for bad english not native speaker.
I think a nerf is not needed to this combo, but a change might be interesting.Nerfing it to a 6 cost 1/1 spawn is going overboard. It is double the cost of Unleash the hounds, which also spawns 1/1's with charge. Unleash is a more conditional card, but Force of Nature minions die instantly after the turn aswell. This would be a bad change.I think Force of Nature could use a 'buff'. Making it cost 8, spawn 3 2/2's with charge. No death at the end of the turn. This nerfs the combo due to it's cost, but makes the card itself more interesting and controlling.All and all the combo is strong, but this is because the game is aggro heavy. If you have some strong taunt minions in your deck you can easily prevent the combo to hit your face for more than 6 damage.
I felt like a real Savage Combatant after a Knight in the Wild. The next morning I let out a Savage Roar and then made a great Force of Nature...dropped it right in the toilet. It was a real Volcanic Lumberer, but after a few good Swipes with the Recycled TP it was just the right Healing Touch I needed. Although it left a real Mark of Nature on the toilet. In the end...it's still great Mulch to Nourish the Soul of the Forest.
Druid's a popular class - it has superior ramp, superior taunts for each stage of the game, superior compact to mid-size removal, superior card draw, superior flexibility, a class silence, and undercosted unconditional removal with hefty delayed penalties. With such tools, viable Mid-range (read: stompy green) and disruption-aggro (read: red deck wins) decks should be dominant. Unfortunately, Savage Roar is very undercosted, and combos too well with charge minions, supplied by Force of Nature. So what we get instead is a lame combo with the two cards, and a lame deck of support cards designed to help them ramp and draw into the combo. OTK eliminates player interaction, and the decks built around it do the same. This, moreso than aggro decks in general, should be understood as the "cancer of the game." Reducing OTK opportunities should be a high priority, to preserve player interaction (it is a game with two players, not an exhibition with one).Further, it is deceptive to argue that the Druid Combo is the only druid finisher. It may be the only turn five OTK, it may be the only single turn combo worth a minimum of 14 damage (under the poorest of conditions), but it is hardly the only way for a druid to win.Clearly, with an emphasis on minions and board presence, a Savage Roar-type effect is thematically appropriate, and if Savage Roar did not exist, would be replaced. Power of the Wild and Mukla's Champion provide similar effects, but aren't even played alongside the Combo as alternate pieces. This should be a red flag that Savage Roar is too good. How to fix it? Firstly, change "characters" to "minions." Personally, I like the sliding mana cost idea proposed earlier, rising in cost with the number of characters it effects, say mana cost = . I could also be convinced of it cast as a "comeback card:" costing 2 + - , perhaps.This still reduces the damage of the Druid Combo by only 2 (4 with double Roar); hardly a disincentive to run it. Perhaps the solution is to rework Force of Nature as less an intentional combo piece, and more a utility/removal card, a la Living Roots, thusly:5 mana: Choose One - Summon two 2/2 Treants with Charge and Taunt, or Silence then deal 2 damage to all minions that attacked last turn.
Right now, I'm seeing almost 1 in 3 matches against Paladin on ladder, 90+% of which are secret Paladin. If nerfing Force+Savage for Druids will somehow magically make secret Paladin weaker or less popular, sure, go for it, nerf either one or both. If not, it seems unnecessary.
@Thrombin2While you can point out small inconsistencies, everything I say still holds true. Just compare Druid's 2 drop options to Shielded Minibot and you'll see why they're so terrible for stat value. All other two drops played do something specifically, druids just have a very weak taunt and a reversed gilbin stalker that can also be a bluegil. Those will never be staple cards.Knight of the Wild, despite being slightly different from Volcanic Drake, is in the same boat. It's an acceleration card that is nothing more than big stats. The best Druid card added since the beginning of the game was Savage Combatant because it was a Druid card that actually did something than besides be a body. Mounted Raptor comes kind of close because it's shredder-esque, but 1 drops are notoriously worse than 2 drops, and it's stats are still a mana below, meaning it's hardly even relevant to be a class card. It's Shredder-lite, and because Shredder exists, this card doesn't need to. Druids also have near no need for three drops because of Innervate, Wild Growth, and Darnassus Aspirant to speed up their turns.As I said, these cards aren't bad on the individual level, they're just arena cards. The problem though is that Druid has been getting NOTHING but arena cards since the first expansion. They are just whatever bodies, most of the time just even with other minions, but they have that beast tag!...that isn't even as close to valuable as a Mech tag is. Those aren't constructed worthy level cards. The combo is the only constructed level proven consistency the druid has. Unless you really want to say that Aggro Druid was anything more than popular for a month.The only exception to this is Druid of the Claw, but it fits in nicely with the Druid's mana curve at 5 and it has the flexibility allowed to be an actual staple card.
Frothing Berserker / Whirlwind / Charge is a 7 mana, 3 card combo that can easily do 10-12 damage with nothing on (edit: their side of) the board. How about Grommash / Taskmaster / Inner Rage for 14 charge damage, and still having a minion left afterwards?14 charge damage at turn 9 isn't actually that unreasonable. It encourages board control to limit the damage that Savage Roar can do.For those who suggest that you should remove Charge and remove the 'die at the end of the turn', consider the following other similar class cards:
I'm actually in the change savage roar camp. Force of nature isn't overpowered by any means. Without a buff those trees just do 6 damage for 6 mana, which is already bad, but they also must respect taunt since they're minions.I think blizzard made the right call when they nerfed Warsong Commander instead of Patron. Patron is weak on his own and it was Warsong that made Patron OP and it was Warsong that threatened future broken combos because of the abusable effect it had. I think savage roar is the real culprit, as it limits what kind of summon abilities Druid can get in the future, whereas force of nature is only problematic if you can buff the trees simultaneously.I think changing savage roar to give your hero +2 attack for every minion you have would make for a good nerf.Fon + Roar would go down to 12 and fon +2xroar to 18 damage accordingly, and it would allow the druid to get some bonus out of his summon effects even if the summoned minions don't have charge.
Pardon me for being so blunt but HOW IS THIS A QUESTION. Combo Druid is not fun to play, it's not fun to play against, it's not interactive, if you lose a bit of board for even a second you lose, it doesn't require ANY skill to play and I could go on. But hey, they'll probably take just as long to fix it as they did with Patron Warrior and will with Secret Paladin. This is why the game is not fun to so many people anymore.http://i.imgur.com/HxGRruv.png
How about 'Summon three 2/2 Treants with Charge that die at the end of the turn. The next spell you cast this turn costs (2) more.' ?
making the spell 7 mana instead of 6 would be 1 turn more the other player might get to defend themselves, druid might still innervate to cast it or accerate mana before that but thats better.