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Why does everyone look down on undercutters?
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Post by
itascagasman
Time after time since I've played this game I've seen topics on the AH and economy and everyone seems to hate people that undercut by a large amount. What does it matter? I for one have done it many times, if a stack of light leather is getting 30g, I put mine on for 15 or 20,so what? The only thing invested in whatever I might be selling was just the time, why hate because they bought mine before they bought yours? And it's not like I'm an AH shark, I don't even put things up very often, but hey, if putting it up for half what you put it up for sells it, then I'm all over it. What's your thoughts?
Post by
kemppy
Its not that. The price takes a while to be stable again. Say everyone had their Ghost iron ore up for 120g a stack. Someone comes in at half that. Now everyone will drop to the lower price to sell stock. So half of what you could have earnt right away is gone. And it will be a long time before you can get back up to its normal price.
Post by
lonewolfe31705
Think of it in real world terms. Farmer Smart, Farmer Hardwork, and Farmer Notgreedy plants potatos. He can sell 1000 potatos for $500 all day long every day. This is how these farmer makes their living to support their family. They all know that $500 for 1000 potatos is a decent price and that the market is stable.
Now, Farmer Jackhole comes along and sees that Farmer Smart, Hardwork, and Notgreedy has been selling potatos for $500 and thinks, "Hey, If I sell these potatos too, I can sell them for less and make money really quick. He sells them for $250 per 1000.
This causes the market price that was supporting all the other families to crash. Making it so they have to sell twice as much to make the same as they were before Jackhole came along and tried to make a quick buck.
The other farmers get together and talk about it, and decide to talk to Farmer Jackhole. His response is, "Herda Berda Derda, Dems my taters so I can does wha I wantz wid dem taters!" He doesn't think about the fact that he just took 3 peoples means to make a living and caused them to have to do twice as much.
TL/DR: Don't be a jackhole and undercut prices by 50% and crash a market causing the people who know what they are doing to send you nasty messages.
Post by
itascagasman
So you're implying that someone who undercuts like that doesn't know what they're doing...I'm not an AH analyst, just trying to make some gold. If someone buys out my stuff because it's cheaper than yours, even by half, why am I a jackhole...it's not like the game's going to run out of "gold" to pay us all. Why should I let stuff sit for days on the AH when I can almost guarantee I'll sell it in almost no time at all...I'm not trying to be a jackhole, just looking out for myself. Kill or be killed,dog eat dog and the like.
Post by
Adamsm
It's because people start trying to match your price which continues to lower it constantly, meaning you can't make money off the item anymore.
Post by
lonewolfe31705
just looking out for myself. Kill or be killed,dog eat dog and the like.
This is why you are a jackhole....
Why should I let stuff sit for days on the AH when I can almost guarantee I'll sell it in almost no time at all
This is why you are an idiot. That 100g flask you posted for 50g will sell just as fast at 95g.
Post by
Monday
This is why you are an idiot. That 100g flask you posted for 50g will sell just as fast at 95g.
This ^
Huge undercuts means you sell it a couple hours earlier for half the cost. That's not a good trade off and it severely hurts the economy.
To put it in perspective for the selfish:
Player A lists a stack of 20 mats at 100g
Player B (you) list it at 50 to undercut and sell more quickly.
Player A relists his mats at 48g
Player C undercuts you both at 25g a pop.
Now nobody is making a profit (including you) and its going to take weeks for the price to go back up to 100g. You basically shoot yourself in the foot every time you make a huge undercut, as you're removing any possibility that you can sell again tomorrow. Instead, you have to continue undercutting to get your sale, with lower and lower profits every time.
Instead, if you had listed at something like 98g, it would still sell quickly (if it's a popular item, which are the only things that make sense to undercut on, tbh) and the market would stay stable, allowing you to sell at the same price tomorrow (or until some "jackhole" screws it up for you).
TL;DR: DON'T BE THAT $%^&*!BAG
Post by
cephadex
I do this when I have very vast experience that an item will absolutely not sell at a certain price range. I have to ask, though, why is the assumption that people selling something for a certain amount are "supporting their families honestly"? I thought the assumption was that "supply and demand means that if people will buy an item at a certain price, then that is its worth," regardless of whether or not it is the price that "supports families" and "is not greedy"? If someone can charge a very high price for an item because people will buy it at that price (ex., they need a medication badly enough they're willing to go completely broke for it), then how is that any more "honest" than charging a very low price for it? Can't "jackholery" be argued both ways?
Post by
Azrile
I disagree with the people that say you are just losing money.
I do this all the time just because I want to get rid of something. I am not entering the market, I am not trying to affect the price of something, I am just trying to sell something without having to worry about it ´not selling´.
If something is selling for 100g, and I put mine for 99... then probably 1 minute later someone else puts them for 98.... and well.. that item I am trying to get rid of, is now going to come back in the mail. But if I put it for 60, then probably someone will buy it right away and try to relist it... My general rule is 300g.. anything that sells for under 300g, I just half the price of anyone else selling it... the 100g I am ´losing´ is not worth having to deal with relisting the item.
I know people have the right ot play the game any way they like, but I think anyone who tries to make gold by selling stuff that costs under 300g is insane. Gems, enchants.. just the amount of time you have to spend scanning the AH, retrieving unsold stuff and storing stuff... It is too easy to make gold in this game to deal with being a gem, glyph or enchant seller. (other than meta gems, weapon and bracer enchants).
But like the OP says, it is funny how many whispers I get about this, it normally happens when I end up with a stack of red gems extra, I will dump them and immediately get whispers from the gem-sellers about how I am stupid for losing 50g on my prices.
Post by
Solarknight
Sell it for whatever you want to sell it at. If you're fine with what you are getting, then you've got what you wanted. People try and make the WoW economy something its not. Items are only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. There is no distinction between similar items. You can't sell an similar item that is better or worse than every other one of its kind. Unless you talk to sellers specifically, you will never know how much time or effort someone spent getting that item. The only thing you can compete with is price. More power to you if you are happy with what you got.
Post by
612548
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Shadoed
The problem you will run in to a lot of the time is that certain people farm all of the time and sell all of the time and presume that because they have set the 'Market price' for something, then that is what it should stay at. Unfortunately, someone else may come along who believes that they make enough profit for them at a lower price which draws an emotional response from the comfortable farmer who has had their way for so long.
As has been said, people try and make more of the wow market than it is, it isn't a stable day to day price line, it is very unstable by it's nature and some people try and maintain the prices a stupidly high rates just because they can, not because that is the going rate, hence the reason you see linen cloth on there at 40g/stack when in reality the effort involved in farming it is next to nothing.
At the end of the day, i will try and respect prices within the market if they are sensible, but if they are being jacked up beyond belief, i will sell at a price that i determine and let the other guys sort themselves out.
Post by
ctowle
I pretty much always undercut, though rarely for 50%. Not because I think it's in any way d-baggery, but because I know 10-30% will do. Smart/patient AH regulars will see something at 50% of what it sells for normally and will buy it to resell it.
I don't have time to farm (aside from Ghost Iron, which spawns abundantly yet still sells for a decent amount) so this is how I make the majority of my gold. Buy low/sell high has never been easier.
While I don't get annoyed by the 50% undercutters (time and market forces will set the prices, not one person and like I said they make me gold), the petty 1cp undercutters do annoy me. Fortunately it rarely results in a lost sale, it just strikes me as childish.
Post by
banokawow
I love the super low undercutters. I buy their product and raise the price and resell it at the "should have been" price and make more money.
Post by
Axehilt
Only people confused by economics are bothered by this. Everyone else understands natural market forces at work.
The stories people relate in this thread are usually just examples of too-rigid economic producers being unwilling to seek out more profitable ventures.
If you throw a tantrum instead of learning from your mistakes, you're going to be pretty unsuccessful (in most things.)
Post by
713404
This post was from a user who has deleted their account.
Post by
Garasumi
If you are worried about undercutters you aren't playing the auction house correctly. Know your market, get the proper addons and get set them up for your specific market. Run your scans and rake in the profits. Tons of options to handle undercutters. The top two I use are buying their lower cost items when it's worth it for me or not posting until their stock is sold and prices are back where I want to sell at.
Post by
Shadoed
If you are worried about undercutters you aren't playing the auction house correctly. Know your market, get the proper addons and get set them up for your specific market. Run your scans and rake in the profits. Tons of options to handle undercutters. The top two I use are buying their lower cost items when it's worth it for me or not posting until their stock is sold and prices are back where I want to sell at.
You forgot to add "don't sell at weekends when the farmfest is going on, wait until the market is in a lull during the week and then reap the rewards" :)
Post by
Garasumi
More appropriately, buy on the weekend. Resell after weekly maintenance (raid resets).
Post by
Jkpman
But, when you undercut by a
huge
amount then you're hurting yourself and the people you're undercutting.
I undercut to make money, and 20g on one glyph is profit, therefore I do not hurt myself, and if by default I cause those selling at 200g to get a little butt hurt, oh well I'll deal with it.
Undercutting is fine, if you are prepared to take less of a profit margin then good for you, if not then I'll call you a Waaaaaambulance.
Edit:-
others may not subscribe to your perceived value, I've often had morons in trade troll me because I was advertising a transmog item, and yeah sure it's not worth it if you want it on pure stats, but if it's a 0.1% drop rate from a rare set.. well lets just say I've sold those for a lot.
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