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PTR
10.2.7
PTR
10.2.6
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rate my protadin spec everyone. even YOU
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Post by
42591
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Post by
42591
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Post by
Philmckraken
Sadly, I can't do much but regurgitate what's already been said many times, but here it is: since 1-handed spec gives you a flat 5% on all damage you deal, I'll take it over the improved ret aura, which relies on you getting hit a lot to generate increased dmg/threat. If you aren't putting out a bunch of damage, you don't build a threat lead, and that PoJ becomes essential for chasing mobs and bosses around the room.
Also, the 5% from 1-handed spec increases with your spell damage bonus from your gear (right?) while the damage from ret aura does not. So, you get more for your money (or talent points) with 1-handed spec.
Take the 2 out of imp ret aura, and the two from imp judgement, and pull one from spell warding or ardent defender, but whatever you do, get 5 points in 1-handed.
Post by
Blightman
Ok,
Imp Ret Aura(IRA):
26(RA)*.5(IRA) *1.9(IRF) = 24.7 tps every time you are hit(assuming RF is up).
1-hand spec(1h) will give you:
26(RA)*0.05(1H)*1.9(IRF) = 2.47 tps every time hit
155(HS)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.7 tps on every HS block, this scales with you spell damage
150(SoV)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.25 tps on every tick of SoV stack, this scales with spell damage
512(Consecration)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 48.64 tps, this scales with spell damage
excorsism and hammer of wrath plus you basic white damage can be added as well
The point is that 1h spec gives a LOT more threat than IRA
Post by
Ryuji2
This
spec
has been and will stay as the best Prot Spec until Blizz decides to change something in it...which doesn't seem to be soon since it works very well. 5% bonus to all damage means more threat. Ret Aura isn't that important to a Ret Pally as being able to dish out threat via shield blocks and seal/judgement rotations is. Ret Aura's just icing on the cake. I don't have the numbers for it but you'll be dealing more damage with the 5% bonus than you would with Imp. Ret Aura.
Post by
Philmckraken
Ok,
Imp Ret Aura(IRA):
26(RA)*.5(IRA) *1.9(IRF) = 24.7 tps every time you are hit(assuming RF is up).
1-hand spec(1h) will give you:
26(RA)*0.05(1H)*1.9(IRF) = 2.47 tps every time hit
155(HS)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.7 tps on every HS block, this scales with you spell damage
150(SoV)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.25 tps on every tick of SoV stack, this scales with spell damage
512(Consecration)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 48.64 tps, this scales with spell damage
excorsism and hammer of wrath plus you basic white damage can be added as well
The point is that 1h spec gives a LOT more threat than IRA
Thanks, that's the formula I would have posted, if I were any good at math. : )
Post by
126231
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Post by
themia
Do paladins typically not get the required 490 def rating w/ gear alone that they need the 5 points in anticipation?
I would think sticking those 5 points into something like divine strength would be more beneficial to threat.
Post by
80968
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Post by
Blightman
The holy shield would not be 14.7 tps, it would just be per block
The SoV wouldn't be 14.25 tps, it would be 14.25/15 tps, so .95 tps
Likewise the consecration would be 48.65/8 tps, so 6.08 tps
If we assume enemies are attacking every 2 seconds, and you block half of their attacks, then you get one block every 4 seconds 14.7 holy shield block becomes 3.675 tps
If we assume enemies attack every 2 seconds and 80% of them hit you, then you have 24.7 threat per hit, with an attack every 2 seconds = 12.35 tps, except 20% of the attacks dont hit, so 12.35*.8, then you have a 9.88 tps.
So improved Ret aura will give you a +9.88 tps on each mob attacking you.
One handed specialization will give you 3.675(HS) + 6.08 (cons) = 9.755 tps on every mob attacking you AND
3.675 (HS) = 6.08 (cons) + .95 (SoV stacked up to 5 times) = 10.705 to 14.505 tps on the mob you are attacking, PLUS the 5% bonus to your weapon DPS and JoR.
Of course, this all assumed the enemies were attacking every 2 seconds, a 50% block rate, a 20% miss rate, and 0 spell damage, which aren't correct obv but you can plug in your own numbers to actually see.
As the enemies attacks get faster, IRA tps goes up
Conversely, as block, dodge, parry, and spell damage go up, one handed weapon specialization's tps goes up.
So the difference isn't that much, except that one handed specialization gives you much more threat on the enemy you are targeting.
Obviously if you are a main tank then one handed weapon specialization is better, since you need to keep the threat of the enemy you are attacking most of all, and you are presumably well geared with plenty of avoidance and spell damage.
If you are AoE grinding your way to 70, I would favor IRA since your gear won't be that great, you will be getting hit more, blocking less, and have less spell damage.
Your math is wrong. Short answer 1h > IRA for both tanking and AoE grinding
Lets go into more detail:
IRA will give you +24.7 threat on each melee hit you take.
Ret Aura with 1 hand spec will see an increase in threat generation as well
26(RA)*0.05(1H)*1.9(IRF) = 2.47 threat every time hit
So the threat difference between IRA and 1h for ret aura is 22.23 per hit. So now we need to see if 1h increases threat from other damages source enough to make it better.
Rank 4 Holy Shield does 155 points of damage per block before any spell damage. Now take the formula I used before and change the words tps to threat per block:
155(HS)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.7 threat on every HS block, this scales with you spell damage
Seal of Vengeance does 150 damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds when you have a full stack of 5, before spell damage modifiers:
150(SoV)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.25 threat on every tick of SoV stack, Which averages out to 4.75 tps (14.25/3). This also excludes the minor extra damage done when a hit occurs and SoV is at 5 stacks.
Rank 6 of Consecration does 512 damage over 8 seconds before being modified by spell damage:
512(Consecration)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 48.64 threat. Which averages out to 6.08tps (48.65/8)
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 5 does 46damag on a block
46*.05*1.9 = .44 threat on each block
Mobs under 20% can be hit with Hammer of Wrath for 665 - 735 points of damage: 665*.005*1.9 = 63.2 threat every 6s = 10.5 tps
So, SoV and Con give more than +10.83 tps by themselves. Now how much blocking you will do is harder to estimate but keep in mind that HS increases blocking by 30% and if AoE grinding redobut should be up as well for another 10%. Basically if you have 3 or more mobs all of you HS charges should get used up in less than 8s. So 14.7 * 8 charges / 8 seconds = about +14.7 tps. If all ofhte charges are used up in less than 8 seconds than the remaining blocks will only get +.44 threat from Sanctuary
So 22.23 - 10.83 - 14.7 = -3.3. Basically 1h out threats IRA even before we talk about white damage or situational abilities like Holy Wrath/Exorcism/Hammer of Wrath.
You next talk about how IRA scale when AoE grinding. And yes more mobs trying to hit you will mean more threat. Of course the more trying to hit you also puts more in your Consecration field and will aslo guarentee that all your HS charges are used and some Sanctuary blocks get taken. And quite frankly for AoE grinding threat is not the thing to look at but survivability and damage capability.
All of these numbers don't include any spell damage scaling which Ret Aura does not benefit from.
Some spell damage coefficients for you
Avenger's Shield 13.57%
Consecration 95.24%
Exorcism 42.86%
Hammer of Wrath 42.86%
Holy Shield (per block) 5.0%
Seal of Vengeance (per tick) 17.0%
Judgment of Vengeance 42.86%
Notice how consecration is almost a 1 for 1 gain, nice.
here are some spell damage items any <50 player can get:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=21753
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=20966
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19531
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=7721
Post by
Blightman
Sorry for wall of text.
One more thing IRA only helps you when you are being hit 1hspec helps you whenever you are doing damage(even with Ret Aura)
Post by
Philmckraken
Sorry for wall of text.
One more thing IRA only helps you when you are being hit 1hspec helps you whenever you are doing damage(even with Ret Aura)
If Wall of Text weren't there to show exactly why 1H is better than IRA, people would be doing their builds all wrong.
I didn't even read everything that Wall of Text had to say, but it had lots of numbers in it, so I can assume that Wall of Text is correct.
Without Wall of Text and its numbers to support That Which is Clearly Obvious to Everyone, some people (OP) would continually try to reinvent the wheel, get it wrong, and clog up the forums with useless threads (like we don't have enough of that already).
I am thankful for Wall of Text, as all of you should be.
Post by
101561
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Post by
126231
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Post by
65116
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Post by
Blightman
No one remembered that holy shield has a base increase to threat by 35%... so it would be
155x.05x.1.35x1.9=19.878 Threat per block increase. if its multiplicative 17.437 if addative.
--Trevelyen
Thanks Trevelyen, I totaly forgot that in my calculations.
Post by
31307
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Post by
omglaserzpewpew
Devotion Aura adds such a minuscule amount of armor it's not even funny. Yes, sometimes that extra 1-2% damage reduction can be helpful, but I prefer the threat generating (and damage dealing) capabilities of Retribution Aura.
Post by
Philmckraken
I prefer Devotion aura any day.
Ret aura is nice and all, but more armor = more survivability = gief !
Yes, the extra .4% of armor you get from Devotion Aura will really make the difference when the boss crits you...
Post by
omglaserzpewpew
Ok,
Imp Ret Aura(IRA):
26(RA)*.5(IRA) *1.9(IRF) = 24.7 tps every time you are hit(assuming RF is up).
1-hand spec(1h) will give you:
26(RA)*0.05(1H)*1.9(IRF) = 2.47 tps every time hit
155(HS)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.7 tps on every HS block, this scales with you spell damage
150(SoV)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 14.25 tps on every tick of SoV stack, this scales with spell damage
512(Consecration)*0.05(1h)*1.9(IRF) = 48.64 tps, this scales with spell damage
excorsism and hammer of wrath plus you basic white damage can be added as well
The point is that 1h spec gives a LOT more threat than IRA
Question -
Why are you multiplying the 1H bonus by 0.05? If we are
increasing
the amount of damage done by 5% shouldn't we be multiplying everything by 1.05?
So the 1-Hand spec gives you 26 (RA) * 1.05 (1H) * 1.9 (IRF) = 51.87 threat per hit.
Similarly, Improved Retribution Aura would be as follows:
26 (RA) * 1.5 (IRA) * 1.9 (IRF) = 74.1 threat per hit.
So, in essence, we are calculating Holy damage and multiplying it by 1.9 to obtain threat, right? IRF increases threat gained and IRA increases damage done, so both should have a factor 1.x (whatever x happens to be).
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